Avacyn
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Post by Avacyn on May 5, 2021 14:13:39 GMT
I thought this thread should be started, because we all remember 2020, and I think it is safe to say that tough times are ahead.
I remember there being such a thread on the old Conservative Conspiracy Forum, which had some really good suggestions. I hope we can replicate it here.
I edited the title of the thread, to better reflect the topic. For some reason, I had put it in as a subtitle, instead of having it as the actual title. The whole idea of this thread is to give ideas and suggestions for a range of possible situations.
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Post by Avacyn on May 5, 2021 14:17:09 GMT
My first suggestion... be the bank.
Make sure you have a supply of cash on hand, to make sure you can cope with the banks not being available. I suggest 1,000 per person, and to look at having set numbers of each denomination of banknote, and I also suggest bags of coins.
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on May 6, 2021 7:08:25 GMT
I need to think about this. In the meantime, this is a more suitable place for my previous post:
“Preparation for future trouble raises many issues.
Basic items being in short supply for a while is one thing; the complete collapse of civilisation or a zombie apocalypse is something else!
Only people with huge amounts of money to spare – and maybe waste – can prepare for most eventualities. They can get in enough food supplies and equipment for 100 years. Huge estates, underground bunkers, yachts and private planes are useful too.
At the other extreme, there is not much that someone on a low income living in a small space with no garden can do.
I suspect that some people who are interested in metaphysical things have not got much in the way of practical skills, so growing and making everything themselves is not an option.
I think it best to make realistic plans based on our personal circumstances, skills, interests and options and accept that many things are out of our control.“
I am not convinced about hoarding cash – if the banks are not available maybe there will be nothing to buy or our money will be worthless...
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Post by Avacyn on May 6, 2021 12:31:57 GMT
UnseenI, I have amended the thread title, and added a description, to better exain the intent of this thread. I am also shocked by the defeatist attitude you have. I am in a low income, with little space,but I see plenty of ways to help create buffers against disaster. But you need time to get it all to happen. Nah wasn't building the ark when the flood started. He was building it well before it happened. Same concept here: work on things now, as opposed to when things happen. A bank closing, and having a banking holiday, and conducting a bail-in, is one way for the banks to become unavailable.
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Post by Avacyn on May 6, 2021 12:33:35 GMT
My first suggestion... be the bank. Make sure you have a supply of cash on hand, to make sure you can cope with the banks not being available. I suggest 1,000 per person, and to look at having set numbers of each denomination of banknote, and I also suggest bags of coins. To better explain what I am talking about, this five minute video lays out the concept really well.
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Post by Avacyn on May 6, 2021 14:31:26 GMT
I need to think about this. In the meantime, this is a more suitable place for my previous post: “Preparation for future trouble raises many issues. Basic items being in short supply for a while is one thing; the complete collapse of civilisation or a zombie apocalypse is something else! Only people with huge amounts of money to spare – and maybe waste – can prepare for most eventualities. They can get in enough food supplies and equipment for 100 years. Huge estates, underground bunkers, yachts and private planes are useful too. At the other extreme, there is not much that someone on a low income living in a small space with no garden can do. I suspect that some people who are interested in metaphysical things have not got much in the way of practical skills, so growing and making everything themselves is not an option. I think it best to make realistic plans based on our personal circumstances, skills, interests and options and accept that many things are out of our control.“ I am not convinced about hoarding cash – if the banks are not available maybe there will be nothing to buy or our money will be worthless... Um... zombie apocalypse!?!?! What types of disaster are you worrying about? The original thread on the CCF was looking at a potential economic crash. That was a very serious proposition back then, and a very serious proposition in these times. Not to mention the fact that there are growing supply chain problems. Try getting computer or bicycle parts in these times. It can be quite the challenge, particularly graphics cards. Also, if we have 1,000 of our currency to one side, we can at least work towards continuing things as normal, for a little while. By that time, things will likely have stabilised, even if a little.
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on May 13, 2021 18:40:31 GMT
Stocking up on some basics
There is a fine line between being negative and pessimistic on the one hand and realistic on the other!
I am still not convinced that there is much that I can do to prepare for a major financial collapse. One thing I am sure of though is that getting in a stock of selected household basics that I use regularly in decent amounts is all good, and this is what I have done. I created a spreadsheet with a comprehensive list in three sections and went through it, making many trips to the shops.
I top up my supplies as I finish something or if there is a good special offer, putting the new items at the back or the bottom of the stack. I have at least two years' worth of most non-edible essentials – toiletries and household cleaning products for example.
I also have big supplies of tea, coffee, sugar, salt, jams and similar groceries that I use regularly.
I update the spreadsheet when I open some new items so as to get an idea of my annual consumption.
There are benefits even without a disaster or even Brexit and COVID-related supply and distribution problems. I have probably saved money by buying at last year's prices and getting the larger sizes; there is also the convenience factor in that I need not go out shopping in the case of illness, bad weather, restrictions or being very occupied at home.
It also feels good and frees the mind to know that some things are all taken care of.
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Post by UnseenI on May 18, 2021 7:05:42 GMT
More stocking up with supplies
“Not to mention the fact that there are growing supply chain problems. Try getting computer or bicycle parts in these times. It can be quite the challenge, particularly graphics cards.”
This is a good point, disaster or no disaster.
I think of the essential consumables mentioned above as Tier 1 items. While money and storage space may be limitations, I can't see any problem with getting in several years' worth of products with a reasonably long shelf life that will not be wasted or unused.
I think of durable items and certain consumables that may not be used regularly, are only used in small amounts or are kept on standby just in case, as Tier 2 items. Herbs and spices are one example, also essential oils, candles and matches. I have a stock of health and medical products just in case.
I also have some light bulbs, fuses for plugs, filters for my vacuum cleaner and a backup tin opener I have plenty of microfibre cloths and scourers too. Batteries are a problem as they can leak white fizzy stuff!
All of this is what I would need and use anyway, and convenience alone is enough to justify stocking up.
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Post by Avacyn on May 19, 2021 11:59:19 GMT
The issue of storing up cash should be put to one side, at least for now. I am having some interesting conversations on the topic, so an developing a more nuanced opinion on the matter.
You raise some good points, and need to be looked at, because they do need exploring.
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Post by UnseenI on May 19, 2021 18:47:14 GMT
I am slowly working my way up the ladder, starting with very easy decisions. I am thinking of temporary, smallish, personal or local emergencies at the moment. I will eventually get to your level!
Tier three is next. I think of it as products, mostly edible, that will serve as standbys and substitutes in the case of minor shortages, distribution problems or problems with getting out.
“Two time of evaporated milk makes four pints of whole milk, when diluted with water.”
A good suggestion.
The big question is, how much to get in if it is something you wouldn't normally buy? I am not a great fan of tinned food, apart from a few special cases. Last year I got 12 assorted tins of vegetables and the same number in fruit and soup. I also got baked beans, salmon and other fish and assorted 'meals'.
COVID and Brexit have not had much effect on supplies this year, so I decided to use up some of my hoard. The tin of raspberries was mostly juice; the tinned macaroni cheese was tasteless, as were the bottled tiny carrots and peas I had with it!
Another staple that in theory could become unavailable is bread. Many people who have been spending a lot of time at home because of the lockdown have learned to bake their own loaves. I am not much of a cook so got some cream crackers and crispbread for backup. I am now using that up too. I got some 'crackerbread' by mistake; it looked like slabs of white polystyrene and tasted of nothing!
Milk and bread can certainly be frozen and kept on standby, but not everyone has big freezers. Where people can stock up on frozen food, the more they store the more they will need to throw away if there is a big power cut.
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Post by Avacyn on May 20, 2021 9:33:02 GMT
I personally have stocks of sweetcorn, evaporated milk, corned beef, cannelloni beans, mixed beans, butter beans, peas, honey, and maybe a few other things.
Some things you buy, and they never get touched. So I recommend buying what you willeat, and to have just a tin of the new possibilities, and try it out. That ways, you don't have wasted money, space, and food.
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Post by UnseenI on May 21, 2021 18:57:16 GMT
Tins on standby
Those are good suggestions.
Having the makings for a few meals in reserve is a good idea. One tin of soup, one tin of butter beans or lentils and one tin of green beans can make two or even three meals for example. Waitrose's Essential soups are good, and Lidl's tinned cherry tomatoes are delicious. Fray Bentos do some vegetable pies in tins too. I also have a few tins of rice pudding and custard.
I have noticed that the majority of tinned fruit on display is p, p, p or p - peaches, pears, pineapple and prunes! I did find some gooseberries and rhubarb - I like them and would have them occasionally anyway.
I know that at the start of the lockdown some people got in huge bags of raw rice, pasta, lentils etc. to cook from scratch. I am not wild about any of them and only eat them occasionally: I am primarily a potato person!
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Post by UnseenI on May 24, 2021 7:12:27 GMT
Traffic lights rather than tiers?
We could think of the green zone as a place where we stock up only with what we really need and like and do only what comes easily. There is little or nothing to lose by preparing for minor problems by getting in items and supplies that we would - sooner or later - use anyway.
The green zone is the comfort zone.
The red zone includes activities and solutions that are off-limits for various reasons. For example, I have no aptitude or inclination for the homesteading life; I am definitely not going to take survival and self-sufficiency classes, move to some remote area, build a cabin, make my own clothes and furniture, grow my own fruit & vegetables and keep pigs and chickens. I am not going to take all of my money out of the bank and learn how to shoot a gun so I can defend my possessions either!
Also in the red zone are options that are obviously available only to the very rich.
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Post by Avacyn on May 24, 2021 12:22:29 GMT
There are ways to defend yourself that do not require guns.
I quite like garden tools, as they are useful to use, could be kept as tradable items with those who need them, rather like seeds.
Garden tools are more useful than people realise, especially with a little imagination.
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Post by Avacyn on May 24, 2021 12:28:25 GMT
Traffic lights rather than tiers?
We could think of the green zone as a place where we stock up only with what we really need and like and do only what comes easily. There is little or nothing to lose by preparing for minor problems by getting in items and supplies that we would - sooner or later - use anyway. The green zone is the comfort zone. The red zone includes activities and solutions that are off-limits for various reasons. For example, I have no aptitude or inclination for the homesteading life; I am definitely not going to take survival and self-sufficiency classes, move to some remote area, build a cabin, make my own clothes and furniture, grow my own fruit & vegetables and keep pigs and chickens. I am not going to take all of my money out of the bank and learn how to shoot a gun so I can defend my possessions either! Also in the red zone are options that are obviously available only to the very rich. I know how to sow, and have started to learn how to patch othes up, adding to my repair skills. I can't grow anything, but have been conducting soil creation experiments for some time, so have a bit of knowledge on that score. As for building a cabin, I would be looking at buying a garden shed or two, and then work on joining them up. You won't be starting from scratch then, and will have some potential for a sleeping area to start with. One thing I do think about, is community. If things have gone to utter heck, then you want to start building up networks with others, and to have ways to rely on others. It is easier to survive in groups, than individually. So it might be an idea to have skills that could benefit a group, and potential trade items.
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on May 25, 2021 17:57:31 GMT
I am not sure what I would do with a garden shed! I do need to think more about what I could or should be doing or getting though. I am slowly moving into the amber zone! I am looking into a few things. Household items are mostly ok. I have plenty of towels and bed linen and my clothes will last a long time. I have all I need in the way of furniture, cutlery and crockery etc. In addition to a vacuum cleaner, I have a small, hand-held vacuum and a little steam cleaner. I have a backup iron and kettle. I think that a seed sprouter is a good thing to have, for people with no gardens in particular. They come in many types. Glass or cloth ones are said to be better than plastic. Children grow mustard & cress on blotting paper and face flannels, so it might be possible to get fresh greens cheaply using old fabric bags.
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Post by UnseenI on May 26, 2021 6:49:46 GMT
“There are ways to defend yourself that do not require guns.“ Indeed.
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Post by UnseenI on May 31, 2021 18:32:10 GMT
Digging up the past
There is some useful and relevant information in Personal Messages and in a few posts in the Brexit and one or two other threads on this site. I will copy the best of it into this thread. “I remember there being such a thread on the old Conservative Conspiracy Forum, which had some really good suggestions. I hope we can replicate it here.” I will try to salvage some material from the old forum, although there are problems. Apart from much of the forum not having been saved on the Wayback Machine, the members-only board is not accessible. From memory, some of the survival-related material was philosophical, ideological, political and ecological. Survival suggestions appeared in threads about the Elite and ones about creating a homeland for wh*i*te people – some of the names mentioned may have helped to get the CC Forum closed down. There was a board called Nature / Environment / Self-Sufficiency / Survivalism, but it had very few posts. The main survival material was in several other places. I see that a member called Avacyn created posts for this board about a family that was invaded by 1,000 giant spiders, a schoolgirl who found 80 spiders in a banana and a student who was hospitalised after being bitten by a spider. Is this one of the disasters that we should be preparing for?
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 1, 2021 17:52:34 GMT
Dangerous communities
“One thing I do think about, is community. If things have gone to utter heck, then you want to start building up networks with others, and to have ways to rely on others. It is easier to survive in groups, than individually. So it might be an idea to have skills that could benefit a group, and potential trade items.”
I agree, so long as this is independent people creating networks. Alternative communities where people go off together and are in the power of a cult leader are not recommended. My post on the old CC Forum in response to a suggestion that like-minded people should go into the wilderness and create a community:
“There is a fine line between being negative and cynical and being realistic. I can’t find much to say about this subject that is positive. From the little I know about them, alternative communities never work.
Many have been tried in the US. From Bronson Alcott’s utopian agrarian commune Fruitlands in the 1840s to Richard Girnt Butler’s w*h i t*e n*at*ionalist compound Ary*an Na*tions in the 1970s, they all failed.
The chances that millions of people will join together seem remote to me. The alternative is a lot of cult-like tribes, tribes that will probably break up into splinter groups. The leaders may well just want to control a lot of people. It seems to me that having a show of their own is often more important than the cause. They may trick people into joining and hold them against their will. Children may be indoctrinated and women exploited. People may lose as much as they gain by joining. It may all end in shootouts and murder.“
These are extreme cases; community schemes are another matter.
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 2, 2021 18:24:38 GMT
LETS and the Brixton Pound
Cult-like communities are best avoided, but there is no harm in investigating skill-trading schemes such as LETS and local currencies such as the Brixton Pound. It is important to look at criticism of and cases against these schemes before getting involved with them though. “LETS - Local Exchange Trading Systems or Schemes - are local community-based mutual aid networks in which people exchange all kinds of goods and services with one another, without the need for money... LETS...has been accompanied by an increase in related initiatives, such as Timebanks, Freecycle, Commercial Barter, Fairtrade Campaigns, and Community Networks of all kinds, which attest to the continuing interest of people in making things happen in their community. “ www.letslinkuk.net/The Brixton Pound was the first local currency to be created and appears to be almost the last man standing. Similar schemes were not very successful. brixtonpound.org/The Brixton Ten Pound Note:
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 3, 2021 18:12:31 GMT
Caching the cash
“Make sure you have a supply of cash on hand, to make sure you can cope with the banks not being available. I suggest 1,000 per person, and to look at having set numbers of each denomination of banknote, and I also suggest bags of coins.” I have been doing something like this for a while now, but for convenience and 'just in case'. My supply adds up to around £200, which is well within my comfort zone: 5 x £20 notes, 5 x £10 notes, 5 x £5 notes, 10 x £1 coins, 10 x £0.50p coins, 10 £0.20p coins, 10 x £0.10p coins and the rest in small-value coins. I could go to £500 or even £1,000 with no worries, but I would not remove everything from my bank and hide it at home just on the off chance that there might be some kind of disaster sometime. This article from the US makes a good general case for not keeping huge amounts of cash at home: www.mybanktracker.com/savings/faq/keeping-too-much-cash-home-290029
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 6, 2021 18:28:36 GMT
2015/16 collapse thread on the old CC Forum
I found the first page of a thread from 2015 about an impending collapse – one that never happened. Unfortunately the Wayback Machine hasn't saved most of it and I was not a contributor. There are some useful suggestions: dried fruit, nuts, peanut butter and tinned oily fish for example. From Avacyn: “Salt. Get lots and lots of sea salt, rock salt... Salt is a useful preservative. you can use it as a steriliser. It has many functions, and is something that will be valuable, no matter what currency collapse happens.”
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 8, 2021 7:26:41 GMT
This is copied from a COVID-related post, but it has wider applications:
Preparing for a possible disaster the elite way
“The Deep State was clearly planning to use New Zealand as a refuge - lots of the high level players have bunkers there. The swift shutting down of borders killed all of that for them. They couldn't go and hide away over there.”
We discussed tunnels and underground bunkers - and private islands and large ships - as refuges for the super-rich on the old forum.
Castles and country houses with estates are possibilities too.
Very few people are in a position to protect and insulate themselves in the event of an apocalyptic collapse in this way. Many people have not even got a house with a garden for growing things and a garage for storage, and a private generator is as much beyond their reach as a private submarine!
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 8, 2021 7:27:57 GMT
Another re-post from last year: Preparing for a possible disaster the ordinary way
“Lots are hunkering down, and preparing for worst case scenario. I just went and bought a lot of tinned food today, to massively push forwards with winter stock reserves. I'm not the only one.” #metoo Avacyn! I don’t eat much tinned food but it seemed a good idea to get some in. I wonder what you got. But what exactly is the worst case scenario? I don’t think it is realistic to try to be ready for anything and everything. As I said above, many people can’t grow much as they haven’t got a garden never mind a smallholding, and many have not got much storage space - or spare cash - so can’t stockpile many years’ worth of supplies of all kinds or buy several big freezers. It seems sensible however to make plans in accordance with our situations and use whatever resources we have to make modest preparations for minor disruptions and temporary supply shortages. There is no harm in stocking up with some essential and basic items, as there may be a ‘Brexit effect’.
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 13, 2021 7:03:52 GMT
Billionaire bunkers and designer arks
While some of us think in terms of getting a few extra tins of beans in, a very few super-rich people are preparing their luxurious bunkers and getting ready for the coming apocalypse. An article from 2019 gives some details of what the elite are doing. It mentions a global pandemic as one possible reason for needing to take cover. A company called Vivos supplies designer hideouts: “Many of the world's elite, including hedge fund managers, sports stars and tech executives (Bill Gates is rumored to have bunkers at all his properties) have chosen to design their own secret shelters to house their families and staff...The company's plate steel bunkers, which are designed to last for generations, can hold a minimum of one year's worth of food per resident and withstand earthquakes.“ edition.cnn.com/style/article/doomsday-luxury-bunkers/index.htmlVivos is even offering a survival complex with 34 homes. It comes with a tram system to transport residents throughout the shelter, where they can visit its restaurants, theatre, coffee shops, pool and game areas.
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 15, 2021 7:18:42 GMT
Three-day survival kit
There are some good suggestions in an article about creating a home emergency kit or 'Bug out Bag' with enough essentials to last three days. The lists appear to have been created for people who may have to leave their homes, but they can be adapted and enhanced for home use in the longer term. Some of the items will last much longer than three days. The wind-up radio and torch are worth thinking about. www.moving.com/tips/how-to-build-a-home-emergency-survival-kit-aka-bug-out-bag-bob/
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Post by Avacyn on Jun 26, 2021 21:18:22 GMT
I am not sure what I would do with a garden shed! I do need to think more about what I could or should be doing or getting though. I am slowly moving into the amber zone! I am looking into a few things. Household items are mostly ok. I have plenty of towels and bed linen and my clothes will last a long time. I have all I need in the way of furniture, cutlery and crockery etc. In addition to a vacuum cleaner, I have a small, hand-held vacuum and a little steam cleaner. I have a backup iron and kettle. I think that a seed sprouter is a good thing to have, for people with no gardens in particular. They come in many types. Glass or cloth ones are said to be better than plastic. Children grow mustard & cress on blotting paper and face flannels, so it might be possible to get fresh greens cheaply using old fabric bags. I am suggesting using the garden sheds to be used as cabins. I am sure some people have done that already - they can be quite big. I think we are all moving, step by step - into the Twilight Zone... Good to hear on household items. Have you enough soap and toilet paper? The sprouting system is a good idea to look at. I am thinking that getting seeds is an idea. Even if you cannot grow them, they can be very useful as barter items...
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Post by Avacyn on Jun 26, 2021 21:22:02 GMT
“There are ways to defend yourself that do not require guns.“ Indeed. I remember that card... good times. I was thinking about gardening tools. They have many uses, and can even be used as barter items. And you can protect yourself, with the right thinking...
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Post by Avacyn on Jun 26, 2021 21:32:26 GMT
Another re-post from last year: Preparing for a possible disaster the ordinary way
“Lots are hunkering down, and preparing for worst case scenario. I just went and bought a lot of tinned food today, to massively push forwards with winter stock reserves. I'm not the only one.” #metoo Avacyn ! I don’t eat much tinned food but it seemed a good idea to get some in. I wonder what you got. But what exactly is the worst case scenario? I don’t think it is realistic to try to be ready for anything and everything. As I said above, many people can’t grow much as they haven’t got a garden never mind a smallholding, and many have not got much storage space - or spare cash - so can’t stockpile many years’ worth of supplies of all kinds or buy several big freezers. It seems sensible however to make plans in accordance with our situations and use whatever resources we have to make modest preparations for minor disruptions and temporary supply shortages. There is no harm in stocking up with some essential and basic items, as there may be a ‘Brexit effect’. I have tens of corned beef, garden peas, cannellini beans, butter beans, mixed beans, sweetcorn, evaporated milk, jars of set honey, right off the top of my head. I also have some lentils and cous cous, too. And a few jars of coconut oil. I think we need to start thinking in terms of a more group approach. Are there people with a like mind around us, that we can team up with? Is there a range of skills available in that group, to survive? Also, what do we do, if we have to completely evacuate where we are? What do we take? How much can we take? How can we get there? It is impossible to calculate every possible situation, but having some ideas and plans is always good, even if we cannot prepare much for some.
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Post by Avacyn on Jun 26, 2021 21:37:45 GMT
Three-day survival kit
There are some good suggestions in an article about creating a home emergency kit or 'Bug out Bag' with enough essentials to last three days. The lists appear to have been created for people who may have to leave their homes, but they can be adapted and enhanced for home use in the longer term. Some of the items will last much longer than three days. The wind-up radio and torch are worth thinking about. www.moving.com/tips/how-to-build-a-home-emergency-survival-kit-aka-bug-out-bag-bob/ An excellent idea, to be honest. You can also get some torches with solar panels, so they recharge themselves, and they can charge up phones as well. A wind-up torch is always a good idea. You have to think about powering equipment in the longer term. You never know if you can get replacement batteries, or a power socket... I honestly like to have Galactica Style Thinking on these matters.
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