UnseenI
Eternal Member 
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278 
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 25, 2018 7:31:29 GMT
Avacyn started a thread on this topic on the old CC forum in September 2014, inspired by some recent news - which will be covered later. He said: “I thought I would start a thread covering all of this, to see if anyone can reasonably fathom who in fact did it.” As 2018 is the 130th anniversary of the murders, it seems appropriate to salvage some of the old material for this forum. A contemporary illustration: 
|
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 25, 2018 7:33:42 GMT
My first reaction on seeing the old thread
I didn’t think I could make any contribution:
“I have nothing to add to the existing information resulting from more than a century of research, investigation and speculation, apart from wondering what it is about this case that has kept large numbers of people interested for so many years, immortalised such names as that of Inspector Abberline and is still going strong.
Some unsolved murders do fascinate people, all the more if there is suspected royal and masonic involvement.
The Victorian setting provides some glamour too: the alleyways, the atmospheric fog, the people with top hats and carriages interacting with London’s poorest people… all this enhances the mystery.“
|
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 25, 2018 7:35:15 GMT
The size of the problem
When I first saw the old thread, I decided to remind myself of the basics. I was amazed to see that the Jack the Ripper case has grown into a big industry over the years, with ‘Ripperologists’ and over 100 suspects. I had no idea that so many people were involved. I quoted Avacyn: “I thought I would start a thread covering all of this, to see if anyone can reasonably fathom who in fact did it.” My reply: “No chance! This mystery will never be solved.” I also said this: “I have also learned that some people are still promoting men who have been cleared. Some Ripperologists are obsessed with their favoured candidates and nothing will convince them that they are mistaken, and some just pass on outdated and debunked information and theories. They don’t do much research and they ignore inconvenient evidence.” I think that the last thing these people want is for the mystery to be finally solved!
|
|
Avacyn
Project Manager 
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Avacyn on Apr 25, 2018 9:25:26 GMT
Avacyn started a thread on this topic on the old CC forum in September 2014, inspired by some recent news - which will be covered later. He said: “I thought I would start a thread covering all of this, to see if anyone can reasonably fathom who in fact did it.” As 2018 is the 130th anniversary of the murders, it seems appropriate to salvage some of the old material for this forum. A contemporary illustration: Interesting... so he's added Emma Smith and Martha Tabram to the list. Which makes sense, I suppose. |
|
Avacyn
Project Manager
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Avacyn on Apr 25, 2018 9:28:38 GMT
The size of the problem
When I first saw the old thread, I decided to remind myself of the basics. I was amazed to see that the Jack the Ripper case has grown into a big industry over the years, with ‘Ripperologists’ and over 100 suspects. I had no idea that so many people were involved. I quoted Avacyn : “I thought I would start a thread covering all of this, to see if anyone can reasonably fathom who in fact did it.” My reply: “No chance! This mystery will never be solved.” I also said this: “I have also learned that some people are still promoting men who have been cleared. Some Ripperologists are obsessed with their favoured candidates and nothing will convince them that they are mistaken, and some just pass on outdated and debunked information and theories. They don’t do much research and they ignore inconvenient evidence.” I think that the last thing these people want is for the mystery to be finally solved! For me, it is solved. Michael Maybrick is by far the best, most logical possibility. I looked at the murders in depth back in 2016, and haven't much interest in retreading old ground. My take on the matter. |
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 25, 2018 18:41:49 GMT
“For me, it is solved. Michael Maybrick is by far the best, most logical possibility.”
Really? I didn’t realise that you had solved the mystery and moved on!
How time flies; it seems like only yesterday that you mentioned the case and doing research on the East End.
I am not so sure about Michael Maybrick myself, but have not done any investigating as such. Surely the crimes were committed by a trained surgeon?
I do find it very interesting that he was a singer and composer, and that he settled in Ryde on the Isle of Wight. That town has many sinister associations.
|
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 26, 2018 6:11:03 GMT
Did the Home Office conceal Royal family involvement?
I found this in a review of a good 1988 TV series about Jack the Ripper with Michael Caine: “David Wickes employed the services of Sue Davies to research the Whitechapel murders of 1888 and she claims to have spent four years reading over forty books and studying Home Office files in order to achieve this. Intriguingly, and adding to the mystique of conspiracy, she also claims that the contents of these files were different every time she visited which aroused her suspicion greatly as certain documents would be missing that she had already inspected previously. Like many great conspiracy theories from those surrounding JFK to 9/11, Wickes believes that it was the government of the period (Margaret Thatcher and the Conservatives in this particular case) that ordered the removal of the files to prevent further anti-monarchy sentiments that were prevalent at the time. His reasoning for this was that you don’t embargo on the files for 100 years if it was just some immigrant from Poland for example. Therefore, this confirmed Wickes’ suspicion that the Ripper was linked to the Royal Family or at least “politically very explosive” dmbarcroft.com/jack-the-ripper-a-review-of-the-michael-caine-tv-movie/There is a lot of good material in this article, and a few suspects are eliminated.
|
|
|
|
Post by truthseeker on Apr 26, 2018 6:18:01 GMT
It's probably a mere coincidence but the band of Peaches husband had a song called Whitechapel:
|
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 26, 2018 17:18:12 GMT
No coincidences! "It's probably a mere coincidence but the band of Peaches husband had a song called Whitechapel"  |
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 26, 2018 17:19:56 GMT
Peaches Geldof moved to Whitechapel
Whitechapel in Jack the Ripper’s time was a terrible place, but it later became gentrified and fashionable: “She is still only 22, but Peaches Geldof is to be married for the second time. Bob Geldof’s daughter tells Mandrake that she has become engaged to Thomas Cohen, a 20-year-old “indie” rock singer, whom she met in January. “Me and my fiancé just went to get a mortgage for a house,” the television presenter and model says …‘It’s a nightmare, because I’m self-employed, but we got one finally. We’re moving to Whitechapel, to a three-bedroom Victorian conversion, which we got for pretty cheap. We’re moving in around January. It’s really exciting.’ www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/8948354/Peaches-Geldof-is-to-marry-for-second-time-at-the-age-of-22.html
|
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 26, 2018 17:20:52 GMT
Peaches wanted pigs for her Whitechapel home
“The pregnant socialite, 22, is thinking about getting pigs in her new Whitechapel home. Her boyfriend Thomas Cohen, 21, admitted: “Peaches is obsessed with pigs. “We might get them at Whitechapel because she loves them so much.” Well, we suppose that’s definitely one way to bring home the bacon.” www.dailystar.co.uk/showbiz/goss/233799/Peaches-n-porkieI wonder whether the Victorian house had a garden - they are not too common in that area.
|
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 26, 2018 17:22:48 GMT
Pigs in a Whitechapel house
I don’t think that Peaches ever got her pigs in Whitechapel, but there was a precedent for keeping them there. Whitechapel at the time of Jack the Ripper had London’s worst slums, worst overcrowding and the highest death rates. The conditions were horrific: “Every room in these rotten and reeking tenements houses a family, often two. In one cellar a sanitary inspector reports finding a father, mother, three children and four pigs! In another room a missionary found a man ill with small-pox, his wife just recovering from her eighth confinement, and the children running about half naked and covered with dirt. Here are seven people living in one underground kitchen and a little dead child lying in the same room. Elsewhere is a poor widow, her three children, and a child who had been dead thirteen days…Where there are beds they are simply heaps of dirty rags, shavings or straw, but for the most part these miserable beings find rest only upon the filthy boards...” www.jack-the-ripper-tour.com/east-end-history/Just a coincidence...
|
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 27, 2018 6:53:22 GMT
Artist Walter Sickert: yet another candidate for the Ripper
Sickert took a keen interest in the crimes of Jack the Ripper and believed he had lodged in a room used by the notorious serial killer. From a DM article in 2017: “Top crime writer Patricia Cornwell has claimed she has vital evidence to prove the identity of Britain's most prolific serial killer, Jack the Ripper. The bestselling author, 60, has long claimed the legendary Whitechapel killer was in fact influential artist Walter Sickert. Her original accusations in her 2002 book, Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper - Case Closed, outraged art historians and were dismissed by Ripperologists as 'improbable'. But now, in a new book to be released next week, Cornwell claims the proof of Sickert's guilt lies in the paper he used... Cornwell has spent millions of pounds investigating the unidentified killer - who killed at least five women in Whitechapel in the late 1880s... She even purchased Sickert’s desk, plus 32 of his paintings to have them tested for DNA.” Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4239244/Patricia-Cornwell-s-new-book-reveals-Jack-Ripper.html#ixzz4ZgLqQo9NShe has spent millions of pounds! Why do people become so obsessed? Her case is plausible, but so are the cases for the other candidates. Each proponent is convinced that his man is the guilty party. There is obviously still a lot of money and publicity to be had from the Ripper case. The speculation and investigations go on… Walter Sickert: 
|
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 27, 2018 18:24:38 GMT
|
|
Avacyn
Project Manager
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Avacyn on Apr 27, 2018 21:58:47 GMT
A small numerical coincidence or two
Mary Jane Kelly, the Ripper’s last victim, was murdered on November 9th 1888. This is the 9th day of the eleventh month - 9/11! Good one. I hadn't picked that up before. You also have a triple eight, in 1 888. To make sure this thread stays on track, I'm posting this up. It is a really good documentary, looking at the murders. It also recreates the area, which is an important help. It is, be warned, an hour and a half long. But it is really factual, and methodical, too. |
|
Avacyn
Project Manager
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Avacyn on Apr 27, 2018 22:07:57 GMT
My strong advice to people: forget about the suspects. Look at the crimes, look at the victims. Do this like a modern day police investigation, and remember that the police force of the day was at a much earlier stage of evolution. Going to tag Achilles to this thread, as I'm suspecting they will have a perspective or two on this topic. |
|
Avacyn
Project Manager
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Avacyn on Apr 27, 2018 22:21:18 GMT
Like many great conspiracy theories from those surrounding JFK to 9/11, As an aside, more JFK files have been released. I recommend a new thread, and will likely start it. Just to keep this thread focussed on the opening topic. Not solved it per se, but have managed to get an understanding of the case to my satisfaction. I don't think there can be a definitive answer, not after all this time. That said, there is a lot of progress for people to make on this topic, at least on this forum. I'll try and steer people forwards a bit, maybe copy some old posts from elsewhere. Or maybe, organs were taken by a trained surgeon? There was a thriving black market for human organs at the time. And if you have a cadaver with incisions and cuts already present, it makes your theft all the easier... I think we need a new thread, to deal with that. Any further discussion here will likely veer the thread's topic off course. But... have you noticed? Where does David Icke live? Just saying. |
|
Avacyn
Project Manager
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Avacyn on Apr 27, 2018 22:34:21 GMT
It's probably a mere coincidence but the band of Peaches husband had a song called Whitechapel: "You're a detective now, son. You're not allowed to believe in coincidences" Commisioner James Gordon, The Dark Knight Rises. I think there is a lot more to see about Whitechapel. I think it is best explored in a new thread, however. |
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 29, 2018 17:53:17 GMT
More numerology
I have always thought of numerology as similar to crossword puzzles: useful brain exercise if you like that sort of thing but not of any significance. Very occasionally, the numbers do produce some striking connections and coincidences.
I have found another connection:
Mary Ann Nichols was murdered on August 31st 1888. This was 99 years before the death of Princess Diana on August 31st 1997.
99 is also 3 x 33 of course, and 9 x 11!
|
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 29, 2018 17:54:23 GMT
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle gave a clue or two
Nigel Morland, sometime editor of the Criminologist, claimed that Arthur Conan Doyle had told him that the Ripper came from ‘the upper stratum of society’.
Conan Doyle visited Scotland Yard’s Black Museum in 1894 and saw facsimiles of the postcard and letter that were believed to have been sent by the Ripper. He said that they were written by an educated person who had visited America. He said they should be widely published in the hope that someone would recognise the writing. He went on a tour of the murder sites in 1905.
Conan Doyle has of course been put on the suspect list himself by a few people.
|
|
|
|
Post by truthseeker on Apr 30, 2018 8:44:17 GMT
Nigel Morland, sometime editor of the Criminologist, claimed that Arthur Conan Doyle had told him that the Ripper came from ‘the upper stratum of society’. When I read this a thought crossed my mind. 'What if it was Oscar Wilde?' That would be a pretty big surprise. But I don't believe it. He just crossed my mind because he and the royal family are the only english people of the 'upper stratum of society of the time I know of. But there were so much more. So many people who could have been Jack the Ripper. And Wilde once said "I don't want to go to heaven, none of my friends are there." He did not say that he knows for sure that he won't go to heaven and I assume that if someone with a christian background kills a high number of people said person must have thought that the chance he won't go to heaven is very high. (I am not saying that murderers definitely won't go to heaven. I am not God and it is up to him to judge every indiviadual but you know what I mean.)
So Canon Doyle who wrote about a detective was a detective himself.
I wonder what the fascinating with Jack the Ripper is. There have been so many other serial killers in the past. |
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on Apr 30, 2018 16:15:37 GMT
We can't be certain that Conan Doyle really did mention the upper stratum of society to Nigel Morland. Many people have no respect for the truth and some people will say anything to get attention, publicity and money.
Assuming that Conan Doyle did say this, he could have meant royalty, the aristocracy, top politicians and famous people - such as the artist Walter Sickert. As you said, "...there were so much more. So many people who could have been Jack the Ripper."
There is something about this case that still fascinates people. Perhaps it is because of a possible masonic involvement.
I don't think that Oscar Wilde was a violent person, but he was very prominent in society. There is just not enough time to deal with all these people and topics!
|
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on May 2, 2018 6:13:25 GMT
Nick Cave and Jack the Ripper
Nick Cave, who has his own thread in the Celebrity section, has a song called Jack the Ripper: 
|
|
|
|
Post by truthseeker on May 2, 2018 16:54:01 GMT
Nick Cave and Jack the Ripper
Nick Cave, who has his own thread in the Celebrity section, has a song called Jack the Ripper: Faris Badwan's band has one too: |
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on May 2, 2018 18:35:48 GMT
Another Jack the Ripper song?
That surely can’t be a coincidence.
|
|
|
|
Post by truthseeker on May 3, 2018 15:16:39 GMT
Jack the Ripper has been fascinating a lot of people. Maybe this is why some songs about the serial killer exists.
|
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on May 3, 2018 18:11:51 GMT
“Jack the Ripper has been fascinating a lot of people.“ I see that many books about the Ripper have been translated into German - and many other languages - so it is not just British people who are fascinated by him. One of the many new suspects is a German sailor called Karl Feigenbaum:  |
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on May 4, 2018 6:13:13 GMT
A very attractive book cover
There is no end to the number of books about Jack the Ripper and the Whitechapel murders, both fiction and non-fiction. Many feature Jack as a man in a top hat and swirling cloak on their covers. I like the design on this one very much: 
|
|
UnseenI
Eternal Member
"Part Of The Furniture"
Keeping on keeping on
Posts: 8,278
|
Post by UnseenI on May 4, 2018 6:14:11 GMT
A site for serious JtR investigators
“On this website you can study all aspects of the Jack the Ripper murders and of Victorian crime in general, as well as learning about the history of the area in which the crimes occurred. You can also study what the police were doing to try to catch the murderer and read about the public reactions to the crimes. You can also cast your vote for the person that you think is the likeliest suspect.” The site is packed with resources and the material is well organised: www.jack-the-ripper.org/
|
|
Avacyn
Project Manager
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Avacyn on May 4, 2018 9:24:30 GMT
Okay... this thread is going off topic again. The title of the thread is "Jack The Ripper And The Whitechapel Murders."
I appreciate that you can find cross connections with other topics, but there is no serious investigating of the victims, of the events, nothing.
I'm not going to make any further comments. If people are not researching this topic, I will simply rename the thread, and put it in the "Cross-Topic" section. I'm very tempted to do that as it is.
Thanks for reading this.
|
|
