Avacyn
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Post by Avacyn on Jun 20, 2019 6:53:40 GMT
Well, it's happened.
I said I would start this thread, because the more I look, the more I see. Deeper into the rabbit hole, so to speak.
The book was written by Lewis Carroll, who was Charles Lutwidge Dodgson (/ˈlʌtwɪdʒ ˈdɒdʒsən/; 27 January 1832 – 14 January 1898). He had been a lecturer at Oxford, when he met Alice Liddell, who was the inspiration for Alice in his books. The original was called Alice's Adventures Under Ground, which was hand written and illustrated by him. It is also half the length of the published story.
I am convinced this extra material is what makes the story a programming script, and why They are so obsessed with it. More will be added to this thread, as time goes by, and I can find relevant pieces of information for this thread.
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 23, 2019 7:00:21 GMT
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 29, 2019 7:32:22 GMT
Alice in Wonderland and some Isis connections
I am guessing that you are primarily interested in the way that many elements of the Alice stories are - allegedly - used in MK programming, but as this is the cross-reference section it is the place for a few other topics and connections of interest.
It all started in July 1862, when Lewis Carroll and a friend named Duckworth took a rowing boat trip up the Thames with the three young Liddell girls. Carroll told Alice and her sisters a story that later became Alice’s Adventures Underground then Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. They rowed up the stretch of the Thames near Oxford; this part of the river is known as the Isis, derived from the original name of Tamesis.
Alice and her family used to holiday in Llandudno, the Victorian seaside town in north Wales. There is speculation but no evidence that Lewis Carroll joined the family there. There is also speculation that his books were influenced by what Alice told him about her time there.
Llandudno has a cluster of streets that commemorate the connection, including Liddell Drive, Lewis Close, Dodgson Close and Alice Gardens.
One of the streets leading into Liddell Drive is called Isis Court. This could have been named after the boat trip, but the Isis reference would be too obscure for many people.
Maybe it is just a coincidence.
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Avacyn
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Post by Avacyn on Jun 29, 2019 23:17:40 GMT
Good stuff. This thread is for more than just MK Ultra, so you know.
What you have generated is good, and I need to mull over it.
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 1, 2019 7:55:31 GMT
Alice in Wonderland and Llandudno
Avacyn it is probably just a coincidence that Llandudno although on the mainland is not far from Ynys Mon or Anglesey, where the druids had their last stand. The town is getting as much mileage as possible from the Alice connection, with themed shops and tours.  "Katie Thompson, eight, as 'Alice in Wonderland' with Simon Burrows, Director of Alice in Wonderland Ltd win the new digital e-tour 'Follow the White Rabbit' Internet APP, at St Tudno Hotel, Llandudno (Image: Robert Parry Jones)" www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/llandudno-alice-wonderland-tourist-trail-6647112
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Post by Avacyn on Jul 1, 2019 9:28:26 GMT
Alice in Wonderland and Llandudno
Avacyn it is probably just a coincidence that Llandudno although on the mainland is not far from Ynys Mon or Anglesey, where the druids had their last stand. The town is getting as much mileage as possible from the Alice connection, with themed shops and tours. "Katie Thompson, eight, as 'Alice in Wonderland' with Simon Burrows, Director of Alice in Wonderland Ltd win the new digital e-tour 'Follow the White Rabbit' Internet APP, at St Tudno Hotel, Llandudno (Image: Robert Parry Jones)" www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/llandudno-alice-wonderland-tourist-trail-6647112 Not only that, but it is North Wales. Didn't Paula Yates come from there, and was the area where the Queen, her husband and he4r parents had thei8r druidic initiation? |
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 2, 2019 8:10:42 GMT
“Didn't Paula Yates come from there...”
Yes. I believe that her parents ran a hotel in the Colwyn Bay area, which is very close to Llandudno.
There is another connection, which I will get back to you about.
The Queen’s druidic initiation was in Glamorgan, in the far south.
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 2, 2019 8:14:01 GMT
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Post by Avacyn on Jul 2, 2019 12:28:30 GMT
In this style... 10/6...
10 divided by 6 is 1.666667. If just one decimal place, it would be 1.7, so... 17, maybe referenced? Q is th 17th letter of the alphabet...
Just musing out loud here.
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 2, 2019 18:33:04 GMT
Everyone goes to North Wales
The climate along the coast is mild and temperate. Llandudno was made fashionable by the Victorians, and the whole area is popular with tourists. So there may not be much significance where the Liddells’ holidays are concerned. Queen Victoria made a few visits to the area. The Queen and other royals have made many visits, but this applies to just about everywhere! The Cambridges had a house on Anglesey for a few years when he was a Search and Rescue pilot. I have even been there myself! Llandudno in the late 19th century: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 4, 2019 7:56:56 GMT
Today’s the day the Liddells had their boat trip
July 4th 1862 was the day of the boat trip up the river Isis in which Lewis Carroll told a story to the three Liddell girls.
At least, that is the official story.
In any case, Lewis Carroll’s influence is as strong as ever. There are four pages of references to ‘Alice’ alone on here, and many more if we include Carroll, hearts, rabbits, clocks etc. etc.
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 4, 2019 7:58:35 GMT
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Post by Avacyn on Jul 4, 2019 9:23:39 GMT
Llandudno needs a closer look. There might be something more to it, more than a cursory look can reveal.
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 6, 2019 7:34:53 GMT
“Llandudno needs a closer look.” All I can tell you is that the town has a large limestone headland called the Great Orme to the north west, and a small one called the Little Orme to the east. The names are connected to wyrn, wurm and worm and may mean sea-serpent. The Great Orme has many caves and tunnels from Bronze Age copper mining, the discovery of which caused people to revise their ideas about metal mining in Britain. The Little Orme is a nature reserve. As I said on the London thread, you can look at many things online. There is a good video of the archaeological findings on this site: www.greatormemines.info/tour/Little Orme and Great Orme:   |
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 6, 2019 7:39:59 GMT
Llandudno again
Is it significant at all that the occultist Dion Fortune was born there?
My memories of the place are very faint, and one is not good. I had a ‘home-cooked’ meal at a café in the town, and it was very disappointing. They just heated some frozen stuff!
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Post by Avacyn on Jul 6, 2019 13:29:57 GMT
Llandudno again
Is it significant at all that the occultist Dion Fortune was born there? My memories of the place are very faint, and one is not good. I had a ‘home-cooked’ meal at a café in the town, and it was very disappointing. They just heated some frozen stuff! Dion Fortune? Interesting... Peaches had a book of hers, in that "shelfie" picture of hers. "The mystical Quaballah." And Dion Fortune started the Fraternity of the Inner Light. Something I noted about the place, however. In January 1984, the Brookside (A British soap opera) character Petra Taylor committed suicide in Llandudno. The actress who played her? Alexandra Pigg. Still taking a closer look, trying to see if more surfaces. |
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 7, 2019 8:13:39 GMT
Paula Yates's official father Jess Yates grew up in Llandudno. He played the organ in the cinema there, and is buried in the Great Orme graveyard.
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 7, 2019 18:54:28 GMT
Lewis Carroll and Little Red Riding Hood
Meghan Markle’s Little Red Riding Hood connections have been mentioned elsewhere. By coincidence, Lewis Carroll photographed two little girls dressed as this character and wrote a poem about her and her scarlet hood:
Into the wood - the dark, dark wood -
Forth went the happy child;
And, in its stillest solitude,
Talked to herself, and smiled;
And closer drew the scarlet Hood
About her ringlets wild.And now at last she threads the maze,
And now she need not fear;
Frowning, she meets the sudden blaze
Of moonlight falling clear;
Nor trembles she, nor turns, nor stays,
Although the Wolf be near.Pictures taken by Lewis Carroll:  
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 7, 2019 18:57:39 GMT
Red Alice
As Lewis Carroll paid Macmillan the publishers for the first printing of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, he was entitled to have things done to his requirements. “In the earliest known letter between Carroll and Macmillan that has survived, dated 11 November 1864, Carroll asks that his book be covered in ‘bright red’ rather than the usual Macmillan ‘green’ used for the cover of The Water Babies.” aliceinwonderland150.com/Bright red? Could that be scarlet? The colour has probably faded a lot, but this copy is signed by Carroll himself: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 8, 2019 7:42:26 GMT
Two young actresses playing the part of Alice
In addition to taking part in fashion shoots, some young celebrities have played the part of Alice. Here are two from TV films. Millie Bobby Brown in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland:   Emma Watson in Ballet Shoes:  
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 9, 2019 7:57:44 GMT
Kate Middleton and Lewis Carroll
Kate Middleton’s dissertation was on the subject of Lewis Carroll’s photography. Her paper Angels From Heaven: Lewis Carroll’s Photographic Interpretation of Childhood explored Lewis Carroll’s vast portfolio of pictures he took of children. She selected some of these pictures for an exhibition Victorian Giants: The Birth of Art Photography at the National Portrait Gallery last March. She wrote in the exhibit’s catalogue: “Children held a special place in the Victorian imagination and were celebrated for their seemingly boundless potential. This notion still rings true for us today and it underpins much of my official work and the charities I have chosen to support, and, indeed, my role as a young mother.” qz.com/quartzy/1210212/kate-middleton-is-about-to-debut-as-an-art-curator/Alice Liddell at the age of seven, a typical Carroll photograph: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 9, 2019 16:18:42 GMT
James Middleton as the Mad Hatter
In June 2015, James Middleton and Donna Air attended Princess Eugenie’s 25th birthday party as the Mad Hatter and the Queen of Hearts from Alice from Wonderland. They put this selfie on Instagram: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 10, 2019 8:05:31 GMT
Kate Middleton and Alice in Wonderland
Kate was played by actress Alice St. Clair in William & Catherine: A Royal Romance. Before she started to take Princess Charlotte to the ballet, almost the only record of Kate’s attending a performance was in 2011 when she went with Prince Charles to see a new production of the ballet Alice in Wonderland. Kate visited Rainbow Place children's hospice in New Zealand in April 2014. They were holding an Alice in Wonderland themed party at the time: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 13, 2019 7:26:55 GMT
Another Middleton connection
Party Pieces, the Middleton family business, produced a new Alice in Wonderland range in 2015: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 13, 2019 7:27:57 GMT
Michael Jackson as the Mad Hatter
Some artwork inspired by Michael Jackson and Alice in Wonderland:  “Nelson De La Nuez, The Mad Hatter, USA 2009”
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 14, 2019 8:08:54 GMT
Prince Leopold and the Liddell girls
Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany is a person of historic interest in his own right, but his connections with Lewis Carroll and the Liddell family qualify him for inclusion in this thread. To summarise material posted in the Monarchy section: Prince Leopold was Queen Victoria’s eighth child and youngest son. He became acquainted with the Liddell family during his time at Oxford University, where Alice Liddell’s father was Dean and Lewis Carroll lectured in mathematics. Leopold became part of the family circle. There is a lot of speculation about Prince Leopold’s possible romantic interest in the beautiful and cultured Alice, although some people believe that it was her younger sister Edith who attracted him. If I had to bet, I would put my money on Alice! Either way, while Alice’s ambitious mother is alleged to have tried to orchestrate a relationship, it is highly unlikely that Queen Victoria would ever have consented to her son’s marrying a commoner, even though he was way down the lines of succession. The young Prince Leopold: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 14, 2019 8:10:26 GMT
More about Prince Leopold and the Liddell girls
Edith Liddell was only 22 years old and was about to be married when she died in 1876. Prince Leopold was a pallbearer at her funeral. In 1880 Alice Liddell married a cricketer in Westminster Abbey, wearing a brooch that Prince Leopold, who did not attend the wedding, had sent her. Two years later, Leopold married a German princess. Leopold’s daughter was named Alice; Alice named her second son Leopold. Prince Leopold was godfather to his namesake. Prince Leopold was a haemophiliac; he died at the age of 30 after injuring himself in a fall. Alice Liddell lived to the age of 82. Alice Liddell’s son Leopold was killed in action at the age of 33 during the First World War. Leopold’s daughter Princess Alice lived to the age of 97. Prince Leopold, Princess Helen and Princess Alice: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 16, 2019 7:45:49 GMT
Prince Leopold and Lewis Carroll
Prince Leopold and Lewis Carroll became friends after meeting at Oxford. Lewis Carroll had a photographic studio and Prince Leopold went there to have his picture taken. There is an amusing anecdote about the two of them. On one occasion they were at Osborne House on the Isle of Wight when Queen Victoria’s carriage approached. They hurled themselves into some bushes! I don’t see why those two should have wanted to hide from Queen Victoria, but the incident is said to be the inspiration for this scene in Alice in Wonderland: “ At this moment Five, who had been anxiously looking across the garden, called out ‘The Queen! The Queen!’ and the three gardeners instantly threw themselves flat upon their faces.” Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany in a photograph taken in 1875 by Lewis Carroll: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 17, 2019 7:23:57 GMT
Lewis Carroll and Prince Leopold’s family
After Prince Leopold died, Lewis Carroll kept in touch with Princess Helen and her two children. The little Princess Alice and Prince Charles Edward liked him very much because of his kindness to them: “He sent a copy of The Nursery ‘Alice' to the little Princess Alice, and received a note of thanks from her, and also a letter from her mother, in which she said that the book had taught the Princess to like reading, and to do it out of lesson-time. To the Duke he gave a copy of a book entitled ‘The Merry Elves.’ In his little note of thanks for this gift, the boy said, ‘Alice and I want you to love us both.’ Mr. Dodgson sent Princess Alice a puzzle, promising that if she found it out, he would give her a ‘golden chair from Wonderland.’” hilliardandcroft.wordpress.com/tag/prince-leopold/  Princess Helen, Duchess of Albany with her children
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 18, 2019 7:40:12 GMT
Alice in Wonderland and some senior royals
According to the biography Young Elizabeth, the Queen as a little girl found Alice in Wonderland very strange; it was too imaginative for her. Prince Philip loved it and knew it off by heart. His mother’s name was Alice... Camilla too loves the Alice books: “The Duchess of Cornwall has revealed the stories she loved as a child, and said she still sees a new book as a ‘treat’. Camilla, 70, recalled fond memories of her father reading to her, and listed The Scarlet Pimpernel, Alice In Wonderland and Oliver Twist among her favourites. Urging today’s parents to do the same with their children ahead of World Book Day on Thursday, she said she still remembers the ‘excitement of opening a book’ as a schoolgirl. ‘Whether it was the dashing Scarlet Pimpernel escaping the French revolutionaries, the inquisitive Alice in the madness of Wonderland or Oliver Twist asking bravely for a second helping in the workhouse, my father’s reading brought them vividly to life,’ she said. Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5434187/Duchess-Cornwall-loved-Oliver-Twist-girl.html#ixzz58CDSstrB She has experienced “the madness of Wonderland” and life down the rabbit hole for herself! At the London premiere of the 2010 Alice in Wonderland film: 
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