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Post by Liberty on Nov 30, 2017 10:04:18 GMT
...William and Harry are said to have shown no interest in becoming freemasons. Hi long term lurker here. I used to read the old forum, you've been doing a great job. Can I just jump in here and ask why if Harry has no interest in masonry he keeps signalling? Here he is with the classic hidden hand i.e. What we are is what we ultimately do: They might not be part of a public lodge but i'm not sure we can say there is no interest.
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Post by UnseenI on Nov 30, 2017 10:13:30 GMT
You are right. It is time to take another look. This thread stalled a bit, but the picture of Meghan in the lion mask reminded me of the picture above. It is difficult to keep up with everything, not to mention all the old posts that are waiting!
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Post by UnseenI on Nov 30, 2017 10:26:22 GMT
Hidden hand or recommended pose?
I remember from the old forum that this is a recommended pose for orators; it was very common in portraits as a symbol of good breeding, but there could be a masonic connection too.
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Post by UnseenI on Nov 30, 2017 17:53:14 GMT
Kilts and Freemasons in the royal family
I posted pictures of many generations of male members of the royal family in kilts on the old forum. George IV started it – his was huge – then Prince Albert, and so on right down to Prince Charles. I found one picture of William and Harry wearing kilts when very small, but nothing since. I suspect that they think they are irrelevant, and just dropped the idea. There are no pictures of Prince George in one, and I suspect there never will be.
I also suspect that William and Harry feel much the same about becoming a mason. There isn’t much in it for them. The official sites that are keen to list their royal members say there is no evidence of their participation. Perhaps they both want to distance themselves from much of the family tradition.
Maybe Harry really is a secret mason, but thanks to the internet, not to mention the ever-helpful Daily Mail, millions of people now look out for and discuss certain gestures so they are hardly secret signals that only an initiated elite can understand. Wait, maybe they have changed the meanings to fool us and Harry is really making a distress signal!
Unlike ordinary members who might fear being discriminated against if they admit to being a member of the Craft, Harry has nothing to lose by letting people know. It could help with recruitment too, so the masons would want his membership to be known. He could be photographed in the regalia, attend events and ceremonies and keep quiet about any secret activities that might be going on. I don't think he is a secret mason, but that is not to say he is not involved with other things.
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Post by UnseenI on Nov 30, 2017 17:54:07 GMT
The masons are in serious decline
At least they are in the UK. I have seen this for myself when I worked on fundraising from masonic lodges. I had to look for up-to-date contact details for the lodges on the database and I found many had merged or closed. I saw an SOS for new members on one website!
I learned recently that lodges are closing at the rate of 100 per year, which is a disaster. They are just not attracting a big enough intake of young men. There are talks of making changes, less secrecy and a wider membership pool, but then it is not real freemasonry!
Who among the younger members of the royal family will take over from the Duke of Kent? I can’t think of any suitable candidates.
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Post by UnseenI on Dec 3, 2017 6:13:44 GMT
Waving or Masonic distress signal?
Prince George in June this year: The Grand Hailing Sign of Distress:
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Post by UnseenI on Dec 4, 2017 6:34:17 GMT
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Post by UnseenI on Dec 5, 2017 7:33:53 GMT
Masonic hand signs
I knew that a certain sign was sometimes called the Devil’s Horns, and sometimes just Rock On. I have just found another meaning; to freemasons it indicates the two pillars of the Temple:
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Post by UnseenI on Dec 7, 2017 8:24:36 GMT
Is Prince Harry a secret freemason?
On balance, I don’t think that he is. A case could be made for his concealing his membership because he thinks it would make him unpopular, but the royals do not conceal their hunting and shooting activities.
I am sure that the Duke of Kent would have tried to get him involved in the hope that this would encourage more young men to join, but I suspect that he just wasn’t interested.
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Post by Avacyn on Dec 14, 2017 23:11:29 GMT
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Post by Avacyn on Dec 14, 2017 23:17:42 GMT
The masons are in serious decline
At least they are in the UK. I have seen this for myself when I worked on fundraising from masonic lodges. I had to look for up-to-date contact details for the lodges on the database and I found many had merged or closed. I saw an SOS for new members on one website! I learned recently that lodges are closing at the rate of 100 per year, which is a disaster. They are just not attracting a big enough intake of young men. There are talks of making changes, less secrecy and a wider membership pool, but then it is not real freemasonry! Who among the younger members of the royal family will take over from the Duke of Kent? I can’t think of any suitable candidates. You also have to factor in that there are tithes to be paid. There is no way someone can simply join; there is a financial cost, and that can be steep. For example, you are obligated to pay into the Lodge's chosen charity, and if the leader should change, and wants anohter charity, you then have to pay all over again. There are a lot of things like that, and people will shy away from joining, on those grounds. They need to work out ways to attract new people, but too many people are suspicious of them, these days.
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 17, 2018 15:22:25 GMT
Prince Harry does the hidden hand sign again
It could just be that he thinks this is better than putting his hands in his pockets or behind his back. This was in late December:
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Post by UnseenI on May 28, 2018 18:40:55 GMT
Uncovered tiles? Why do I never notice these things! That is intriguing.
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 8, 2018 8:22:55 GMT
Uncovered tiles? Why do I never notice these things! That is intriguing. I posted this in respose to a member who is no longer with us. She said that the black and white tiles in St. George's Chapel were not covered with a carpet for the recent royal wedding. This is not usually the case. It does seem that the tiles were covered for previous weddings, starting with the first ever in this place when the Prince of Wales married Alexandra of Denmark. Maybe there is some significance here.
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 24, 2018 18:03:31 GMT
Bare tiles for Harry & Meghan
The very first royal wedding in St. George’s Chapel Windsor took place in 1863. We have oil paintings of the ceremony. The archbishop of Canterbury is standing on a carpet, and so are all the people in front of him. In the recent wedding, the Archbishop still has his carpet, but the rest of the tiles are bare. Some see this as a Masonic reference: Another view of the wedding of the Prince of Wales and Princess Alexandra:
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Post by UnseenI on Jun 25, 2018 7:10:39 GMT
St. George’s Chapel and another royal wedding
A long blue carpet for Sophie and Prince Edward here:
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 5, 2018 6:49:55 GMT
The royal family, kilts and freemasonry again
I posted earlier about a connection I thought I saw between the royal family’s relationship with kilts and their relationship with freemasonry.
Many members including several monarchs have been photographed in both kilts and masonic regalia.
I am returning to this topic because of Hanoverian Prince Augustus Frederick, Duke of Sussex, who recently became a new person of interest.
Prince Augustus’s big brother George IV was the first Hanoverian to be portrayed wearing a kilt. I put a picture on another thread. It is not a pretty sight: George, known as Prinny, was big in more than one sense of the word.
Prince Augustus was Grand Master for 30 years. He is said to have played a crucial role in the formation of modern English Freemasonry. He was first initiated in Berlin. So far as we know, he never wore a kilt.
Big brother George was a member of the Prince of Wales Lodge, but was not a hands-on activist like Augustus.
To return to the present day, Princes Charles is a great kilt wearer but not a mason. Princes William and Harry wore kilts when very young, but not recently. Prince George has never been seen in one.
It seems that both of the relationships are dying when it comes to possible future monarchs.
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Post by Lavendel on Jul 5, 2018 12:06:03 GMT
Augustus Grand Lodge Master EMBRACING TOLERANCE AND APPROACHING LIFE WITH AN OPEN MIND, IT’S NO COINCIDENCE THAT THE DUKE OF SUSSEX PLAYED SUCH A PIVOTAL ROLE IN SHAPING MODERN FREEMASONRY, WRITES MALTA GRAND INSPECTOR DR LAWRENCE PORTER br] The Duke of Sussex, Grand Master from 1813 to 1843, is a towering figure in the history of English Freemasonry. He played a pivotal role in the unification of the Premier and Antient Grand Lodges to form the United Grand Lodge of England in 1813. It’s impossible to overestimate the importance of his influence on the structure and status of modern English Freemasonry. Without his vision, energy and, above all, his sense of tolerance, the United Grand Lodge of England would not exist in its present form. Just imagine if we still had two competing Grand Lodges and how this would dampen the effectiveness of English Freemasonry throughout the world. Augustus Fredrick was born a Royal Prince on 27 January 1773, the ninth of the fifteen children of George III and Queen Charlotte. On 27 November 1801, at the age of twenty-eight, the King made him Duke of Sussex. PROGRESSIVE REPUTATION Augustus had a reputation for open-mindedness and was considered the most liberal of his siblings, being something of a social reformer. He was educated abroad, entering the University of Göttingen in 1786 at the age of thirteen. He was the only one of the princes not to pursue a military career, although some commentators have attributed this to the fact that he suffered from asthma rather than his well-known liberal propensities. In opposition to the views of some of his older brothers, in particular the Duke of Cumberland, Augustus favoured Catholic Emancipation. He was also, despite his devout Christianity, a strong supporter of the International Travelling community. In 1815, the Duke accepted patronage of the International Travellers’ Hospital and Orphan Asylum, which survives to this day as the charity Norwood. He also lent his influence to promote various benevolent schemes and was once referred to as ‘the most charming beggar in Europe’. Augustus was a prominent supporter of the arts and also of scientific research and progress. He became president of the Society of Arts in 1816 and president of the Royal Society in 1830. An active president of the Royal Society, Augustus hosted many parties at Kensington Palace, often at great personal expense. GLITTERING CAREER Augustus was initiated into the Lodge of Victorious Truth in Berlin in 1798 while studying in Germany. He took rapidly to masonry, eventually occupying the Chair of his German Lodge. Back in England, in 1800 Augustus joined his brother George’s Prince of Wales Lodge, now No. 259. The Duke joined the Lodge of Friendship, No. 6, in 1806 and Antiquity, No. 2, in 1808. In 1814, he was instrumental in the resuscitation and, later, amalgamation of several lodges to form Royal Alpha Lodge, No. 16 – which was the Grand Master’s personal lodge and remains so until this day. In 1813, Augustus was elected Grand Master of the Premier Grand Lodge while his elder brother, the Duke of Kent, became Grand Master of the Antients, and they became involved in the completion of the negotiations for the unification of the two Grand Lodges. The Articles of Union were finalised at the end of 1813 and on 27 December 1813, the Duke of Kent graciously stood aside for his younger brother to take the reins of the new Grand Lodge. Augustus remained Grand Master for thirty years until his death in 1843. He referred to the union of the two Grand Lodges as ‘the happiest event of my life’. Augustus was a very hands-on Grand Master, resolving ‘to rule as well as to reign’. He attended some of the meetings of the special Lodge of Reconciliation (1813-1816), personally chaired the Board of General Purposes and was involved in the detail of all of the major Board decisions. The Union did not proceed quite as smoothly as it might appear from our vantage point, two hundred years further on. Indeed, Augustus faced significant resistance to the changes necessary to bring together two proud organisations with similar aims and ceremonies, but with important differences. ‘Augustus astounded the nation by becoming the first royal to be buried in a public graveyard. After his death in 1843, he was laid to rest in Kensal Green Cemetery.’ Demonstrating his independent thinking, Augustus astounded the nation by becoming the first royal to be buried in a public graveyard. After his death on 21 April 1843, and following the instructions recorded in his will, he was laid to rest in Kensal Green Cemetery in North London. Such a choice of burial place by a royal prince required the permission of Queen Victoria. He had been the Queen’s favourite uncle and gave her away at her wedding to Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha in 1840. The Spectator of 29 April 1843 wrote: ‘Her acquiescence in his selection of a place of burial may be received as an indication that she understood as well as loved him.’ A visit to the Kensal Green Cemetery is worthwhile. After the Duke’s burial there, and later the burial of his sister, Princess Sophie, the cemetery became fashionable and many famous people followed suit. However, the inscription on the tombstone is now difficult to read and I believe that Freemasons would do well to pay more attention to the final resting place of our Grand Master www.freemasonrytoday.com/features/duke-of-sussex-s-crucial-role-in-the-formation-of-modern-freemasonry
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Post by UnseenI on Jul 12, 2018 6:05:22 GMT
Green in freemasonry
The colour green is getting into many threads. “Green has been directly associated with the ideas of resurrection and immortality...The acacia (the masonic evergreen) has been suggested as a symbol of a moral life or rebirth, and also of immortality. To the ancient Egyptians, green was the symbol of hope. The Grand Lodge of Scotland has adopted green as its emblematic colour, and, in varying shades, it is incorporated in the dress and furnishings of degrees and Orders beyond the Craft in English, Irish and Scottish Freemasonry.” www.masonicworld.com/education/files/apr02/include/colour_symbolism_in_freemasonry.htmKing George VI with some Scottish masons, not in colour unfortunately:
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Post by UnseenI on Sept 1, 2018 18:43:37 GMT
Ardent associations
Prince Edward’s Ardent calling card - posted in the main thread and repeated here for convenience - was in the significant red, white and black colours. There is a company called Ardent that produces real ale. Not only do they use the same colour scheme, they have the V & A sign associated with Queen Victoria & Albert. It has been likened to the Masonic set-square and compass. Prince Edward is said to be a Master Mason, although there is no real evidence. Craft ales - Freemasonry is known as The Craft. Is all this just a meaningless coincidence?
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Post by Avacyn on Sept 19, 2018 20:22:55 GMT
Uncovered tiles? Why do I never notice these things! That is intriguing. Not understanding this post. I take it it was in connection to something @questioneverything had said?
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Post by Avacyn on Sept 19, 2018 20:28:16 GMT
Green in freemasonry
The colour green is getting into many threads. “Green has been directly associated with the ideas of resurrection and immortality...The acacia (the masonic evergreen) has been suggested as a symbol of a moral life or rebirth, and also of immortality. To the ancient Egyptians, green was the symbol of hope. The Grand Lodge of Scotland has adopted green as its emblematic colour, and, in varying shades, it is incorporated in the dress and furnishings of degrees and Orders beyond the Craft in English, Irish and Scottish Freemasonry.” www.masonicworld.com/education/files/apr02/include/colour_symbolism_in_freemasonry.htmKing George VI with some Scottish masons, not in colour unfortunately: In Egypt, Papyrus grows there freely. It is green, and if the stem snaps, the head ends up in the water. From there, you end up with the plant propagating, and that leafy head sprouts and grows roots in it's own right. Hence it being seen as an important symbol.
If that helps?
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Post by UnseenI on Sept 20, 2018 6:37:10 GMT
All roads are said to lead to Rome; it seems to me that they all lead to ancient Egypt! Everything goes back to some Egyptian element.
As for the tiles, yes, a former member did point out that the black and white tiles were bare for Meghan and Harry's wedding but thickly carpeted for everyone else's.
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 31, 2018 7:34:41 GMT
Masonic regalia in Cornwall
Grand Master Albert Edward, Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and the future Edward VII, visited Truro in Cornwall In May 1880. He laid two foundation stones for the new cathedral, one of which is shown in this etching: “During the Royal visit to Truro, the Prince of Wales (later Edward VII), lays the corner-stone of Truro Cathedral in a ceremony.”
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Post by transformer on Jan 22, 2019 8:54:57 GMT
Anyone know this hand signal?
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 22, 2019 20:07:31 GMT
I am 99.99999% sure that Prince Harry is not a freemason!
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Post by UnseenI on May 6, 2019 6:36:39 GMT
The secret Order of the Mopses Lavendel - and truthseeker too if you are still around - is this a joke? It was difficult to decide where to put this post. There are references to Sussex, European royalty and the Masons, but I was tempted to put it in the Comedy thread! Brighton is of interest at the moment; in the heart of Brighton we have the Sussex Masonic Centre, which includes a museum. One of the exhibits is a porcelain figure that is thought to represent Augustus II of Poland, Elector of Saxony. Roman Catholics were not permitted to join Masonic lodges, so the secret Order of the Mopses was founded in 1740 by German Roman Catholics with the support of Augustus II, who became its Grand Master. Because his favourite animal was the mops, this became the symbol of the Order and gave it its name. In English, mops are what you wash the floor with, but in German it means pug dog! Augustus II, his mason’s apron and his pug dog, which represents symbolically how Freemasonry survived in Germany, Prussia and elsewhere in Europe under adverse conditions: www.freemasonrytoday.com/features/the-masonic-museum-in-brighton
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Post by UnseenI on May 6, 2019 6:38:10 GMT
More about the Mopses
I still see the Mopses as a big joke, all the more after what it says about them in Wiki. Please tell me this isn’t true: “Members called themselves Mops (the German for Pug), novices were initiated wearing a dog collar and had to scratch at the door to get in. The novices were blindfolded and led around a carpet with symbols on it nine times while the Pugs of the order barked loudly to test the steadiness of the newcomers. During the initiation, the novices also had to kiss a Pug's (porcelain) backside under its tail as an expression of total devotion.“ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_PugWho said that the Germans have no sense of humour!
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Post by truthseeker on May 6, 2019 23:36:01 GMT
I don't know if this is a joke or not. I have never heard about the Order of the Pug/Mopses before.
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