UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on Dec 28, 2017 18:37:06 GMT
Some of this content was posted on the old forum, although it was not always directly relevant to the royalty-related threads there. It is going on here to avoid wasting all the research and information.
This thread may be of interest to people who would like to know more about the (mostly) pre-20th century British monarchy and associated events even though all bets are off now and the crown is up for grabs, so the past is no longer much of a guide to the future.
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on Dec 28, 2017 18:38:51 GMT
The seven royal Edwards
Here is a reminder of all the official King Edwards: 
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Post by UnseenI on Dec 28, 2017 18:41:08 GMT
Edward V and Richard III’s son, the Edward VI who never was
When looking at the Plantagenets and the Tudors, it is very easy to get confused with all the Richards and Edwards and the various claimants to the throne. There are many heirs and spares, illegitimate sons and imposters and convenient and suspicious deaths in the case.
King Edward IV produced an heir and a spare. When he died, his elder son Prince Edward became King Edward V, although he was never crowned. He and his younger brother Richard, Duke of York were sent to the Tower and disappeared from history.
Richard III had just one son, Edward of Middleham, Prince of Wales. The year of his birth is not known for sure, but was between 1473 and 1476. He is said to have been a sickly child .He died suddenly and unexpectedly in 1484 from what could well have been tuberculosis. His parents were devastated. Some people thought that his death was divine retribution for the deaths of the Princes in the Tower.
We will never know what might have happened if he had still been alive when his father was killed at the Battle of Bosworth Field. Would he have had a chance of becoming Edward VI, or would someone have got him out of the way?
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Post by UnseenI on Dec 29, 2017 7:29:34 GMT
Imposters and pretenders: Lambert Simnel
The sad stories of Edward V and the Edward VI who never was have reminded me of another topic of interest from British history: imposters. Some may be sad, deluded and obsessed people. Robert Brown, the accountant who claims to be Princess Margaret’s son, is an example. Others may be trying it on, for the money and position. They see a gap in the market and go for it. Others may just be pawns and puppets, used by ambitious people to further their interests. Two famous names from the 15th century are Lambert Simnel and Perkin Warbeck. Lambert Simnel claimed to be the nephew of Richard III, or rather this claim was made on his behalf when he was a young boy. He was a figurehead for the Yorkist rebellion against the first Tudor king, Henry VII. “… the ten year old boy, son of an Oxford tradesman, who was coached by an ambitious priest to impersonate the Earl of Warwick, Clarence’s son, and was crowned Edward VI in Dublin Cathedral. After the defeat of the conspirators at Stoke Henry decided that ridicule was the best weapon and made Simnel a turnspit in the royal kitchens, later promoting him to falconer. He died in his bed aged 50, a remarkable record for one found guilty of treason against the Tudors.” www.r3.org/on-line-library-text-essays/back-to-basics-for-newcomers/lambert-simnel-and-perkin-warbeck/This priest was called Richard Simon. He was ambitious and unscrupulous. From WiKi: “Simon noticed a striking resemblance between Lambert and the sons of Edward IV, so he initially intended to present Simnel as Richard, Duke of York, son of King Edward IV, the younger of the vanished Princes in the Tower. However, when he heard rumours that the Earl of Warwick had died during his imprisonment in the Tower of London, he changed his mind. The real Warwick was a boy of about the same age and had a claim to the throne as the son of the Duke of Clarence, King Edward IV's brother.” So Simnel was crowned King Edward VI in Dublin! I imagine that the Yorkists, who were determined to overthrow Henry VII, would not have checked his credentials too thoroughly. They needed someone to rally round; they needed a good candidate for the throne.
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Post by UnseenI on Dec 29, 2017 7:31:51 GMT
Imposters and pretenders: Perkin Warbeck
The man known as Perkin Warbeck was yet another Yorkist-backed candidate for the throne. He was a cloth merchant whose English was not very good. He hoped to become King Richard IV.
“Perkin Warbeck, was a more serious and long term threat to Henry VII, since he was recognised as ‘Richard Duke of York’ by many of the sovereign rulers of Europe and his continuing existence dominated Henry’s foreign policy until his execution in 1499. His true identity remains a mystery, not resolved at the time … and still giving rise to speculation five centuries after his death.”
Perkin Warbeck claimed to be Richard of Shrewsbury, Duke of York, the younger son of King Edward IV and one of the Princes in the Tower. He said that his elder brother, Edward V, had indeed been murdered but he was spared and sent to Europe for safe keeping. Margaret of York, his aunt, publicly recognised him as Richard of Shrewsbury.
“In 1491, Warbeck landed in Ireland in the hope of gaining support for his claim as Lambert Simnel had four years previously. However, little support was found and he was forced to return to the European mainland. “
The Irish connection is interesting. Ireland was a stronghold of the York family.
After some invasions and landings, raising of armies and rebellions, Warbeck was eventually captured. He was treated well at first after confessing that he was an imposter, but was executed after making some escape attempts. He was around 25 years old at the time of his death.
When membership of the bloodline is not established beyond doubt, appearance is a major factor. Lambert Simnel resembled the sons of Edward IV; Perkin Warbeck is said to have had a princely bearing and to have resembled Edward IV; there is speculation that he might have been the king’s illegitimate son.
We will never know for sure.
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Post by Lavendel on Dec 29, 2017 13:35:56 GMT
This is an interesting thread for historical stuff. I was watching a program here about Edward 3 that he was Gay and he loved one of his officers and gave him titles and dukedom which offended the courtiers who had the Gay partner killed.
I have noticed that all Edwards have had difficult marriages and Gay rumours around them. Or
Could it be the title Edward is a marker for a prince suspected of being Gay? Is it possible that courtiers notice this earlier on and maybe the reason Edward VIII duke of windsor was not accepted as King with his mistress.
Charles a likely- king Edward- has had Gay rumours around him just like Edward the some of Elizabeth Ii; was names Edward from start and he has Gay rumours around him.
Maybe the Duke of Windsor was kicked out for his openly Gay behaviors?
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Post by UnseenI on Dec 29, 2017 17:58:17 GMT
Edward VI: another convenient death?
Lavendel you once said that Edward is an unlucky name for a king. This is certainly true for Edward V (Prince in the Tower) and Edward VIII; Edward VI is another example: Henry VII, the first Tudor king, was succeeded by his son Henry VIII who, as mentioned elsewhere, was Duke of York until his elder brother died unexpectedly from a respiratory illness. Henry VIII had only one legitimate surviving son, yet another Edward. This was another sickly boy. He became King Edward VI at the age of nine when Henry VIII died. He was found to be suffering from tuberculosis, and he died at the age of 15. If he had lived and gone on to have children, we might never have had Queen Elizabeth I and her Golden Age. She succeeded her half-brother Edward VI five years after his death, despite having been declared illegitimate at one point and despite having two other queens precede her. Are all of these convenient deaths just down to bad luck, chance and primitive medical treatments? Arranged marriages between unhealthy people just for land, alliances and dynastic reasons could be responsible too. Or maybe there is more to it and Elizabeth I, just like Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth II, was intended to be monarch all along. Something is playing chess behind the scenes and promoting pawns to queens.
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Post by Lavendel on Dec 29, 2017 23:34:00 GMT
I read somewhere that all the Duke of York in history, have problems having son.
The last three Queens Victoria, elizabethed were daughters of Yorks ; whose only son died young, of fate.
Unseenl you wrote that Queen mum had a miscarriage of a boy. Was the miscarriage planned so York can have a girl.
Prince Andrew a York has two girls and it has happened before that the dukedom of York reverts to the crown and will happen when Andrew dies.
So it wilk be up for grabs, for Harry.
Charles will be a very short serving Edward after his mum over took Victorian era and Edward.
The camila are mistresses of Edwards. Or Gay Edwards.
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on Dec 30, 2017 6:03:24 GMT
"I read somewhere that all the Duke of York in history, have problems having son."
I had not thought of this. George V would be an exception!
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Post by sinless69uk on Dec 30, 2017 11:10:46 GMT
This is an interesting thread for historical stuff. I was watching a program here about Edward 3 that he was Gay and he loved one of his officers and gave him titles and dukedom which offended the courtiers who had the Gay partner killed. I have noticed that all Edwards have had difficult marriages and Gay rumours around them. Or Could it be the title Edward is a marker for a prince suspected of being Gay? Is it possible that courtiers notice this earlier on and maybe the reason Edward VIII duke of windsor was not accepted as King with his mistress. Charles a likely- king Edward- has had Gay rumours around him just like Edward the some of Elizabeth Ii; was names Edward from start and he has Gay rumours around him. Maybe the Duke of Windsor was kicked out for his openly Gay behaviors? That was Edward 2 and Piers Gaveston. |
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Post by UnseenI on Dec 30, 2017 14:55:50 GMT
sinless69uk! Welcome back. I like the way you step in and mildly remind us what's what when we go off course a bit. All those people with the same names and titles are very confusing. That is why I am looking forward to King BoJo I! Anyway, best wishes for 2018 and I hope that you will be able to make some more contributions.
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 2, 2018 6:55:03 GMT
Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder Plot
More and more of what I learned at school is coming back to me, some of it triggered by recent mention of Pindar and the tunnels under central London. I remember being told about the plot to blow up Parliament in 1605. It is a long story, and much of it is unconfirmed. One of the conspirators was Guy Fawkes, who is still burned in effigy every November 5th, He was born in York in 1570. In 1604, he became involved with a small group of provincial English Catholics who wanted to assassinate King James I and restore a Catholic monarchy. They plotted to blow up Parliament House with gunpowder, on the day of the opening of Parliament when King James and Prince Henry his heir would be attending. Guy Fawkes and his fellow conspirators are reported to have tunnelled from their rented house to the House of Lords and stored gunpowder in an unused room in the cellars. It was Guy Fawkes’ job to set the fuses for igniting the barrels of gunpowder. They warned one Catholic peer to stay away, which may have alerted officials to the plot. The conspirators were caught, put on trial and executed. My teacher said that the official story could not be taken at face value, and that an agent provocateur was probably involved. Today, a false flag might be mentioned. We will never know for sure what really happened. Engraving of Guy (Guido) Fawkes and his fellow plotters: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 2, 2018 6:57:04 GMT
The Queen Elizabeth II who never was
The Gunpowder Plotters planned to bypass the rules for succession. King James I had disappointed England’s Catholics when he failed to increase religious tolerance. Guy Fawkes and his collaborators decided to punish him for this and put their own candidate on the throne. The official story is that the plotters hoped to kill James I and his heir Prince Henry, kidnap his daughter Elizabeth and install her as a Catholic puppet queen. She had another brother, who later became Charles I, but she was chosen ahead of him. She was four years his senior, and he was considered unsuitable: “Part of the intent of the Gunpowder Plot of 1605 was to assassinate Elizabeth's father and the Protestant aristocracy, kidnap the nine-year-old Elizabeth from Coombe Abbey, and place her on the throne of England—and presumably the thrones of Ireland and Scotland—as a Catholic monarch. The conspirators chose Elizabeth after considering the other available options. Prince Henry, it was believed, would perish alongside his father. Charles was seen as too feeble (having only just learnt to walk) and Mary too young. Elizabeth, on the other hand, had already attended formal functions, and the conspirators knew that "she could fulfil a ceremonial role despite her comparative youth" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Stuart,_Queen_of_Bohemia Nothing came of this ambitious scheme, which was not unusual for the time. The available information suggests that she would have made a good queen. There would have been no Civil War and a very different set of monarchs’ names in the history books.
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 2, 2018 12:17:37 GMT
Sherlock Holmes and Queen Victoria’s bloomers
An amusing story about Sherlock Holmes, Queen Victoria and a relative of the present Queen. “SHERLOCK Holmes’s legal team have got into a right royal row over a spoof play featuring the fictional sleuth and a pair of Queen Victoria’s knickers. The Further Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and The Mysterious Case of the Queen’s Knickers, staged in Herefordshire, had to be re-written following complaints from Sherlock’s copyright holders. The Victorian detective’s legal team were especially concerned at lewd comments in the play as the copyright holder, Andrea Plunket, is married to the Queen’s cousin the Right Hon Shaun Plunket. The production, written by Richard Brookman, originally featured Queen Victoria “swearing like a trooper” because her underwear was laced with poison. The play then showed Sherlock investigating who attacked the monarch’s pants, and foiling a plot to destroy the royal family and the cabinet with explosive Christmas puddings, aided by his sidekick Dr Watson. Mrs Plunket’s mother bought the trademark of Sherlock’s creator Arthur Conan Doyle from his family. Literary estate managers Jonathan Clowes, speaking on behalf of Mrs Plunket, said: 'It was in rather bad taste – lots of swearing, and not maintaining the legacy of Arthur Conan Doyle. And considering Andrea is married to a family member of the Queen, it was distasteful. We took action against it and it’s not going ahead.'” www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/royal-row-over-spoof-sherlock-223144After reading about how much Queen Victoria used to eat, it is not surprising that the knickers that come up for sale have 45-50 inch waists. They have sold for as much as £16,250: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 19, 2018 7:44:42 GMT
Alfred, Lord Tennyson: another Victorian of interest
Alfred Tennyson was one of the most popular and successful of the Victorian poets. I like some of his poetry very much. Researching some Victorians reminded me of him. A quick investigation has found some points of interest. Queen Victoria praised him highly and had a good relationship with him, although she was taken aback by his wild appearance when she first met him. When he died in 1892, 11,000 people applied for tickets to his funeral in Westminster Abbey. Tennyson’s father suffered frequent mental breakdowns that were exacerbated by alcoholism. This reminds me of what is said about Arthur Conan Doyle’s father. Tennyson studied at Trinity College, Cambridge. He later attended the house parties of Baron Lionel de Rothschild, a great friend of Benjamin Disraeli’s. From Lavendel a while back: “It's like in the classical music. Some of these people are hitting the tones at different wavelength. we are on lower vibration or tone. Talking about classical music I believe they communicate through this kind of music from the past, through colours of orange blue etc, through buildings s and emblems.“ Poetry is another medium that can be used to resonate people to the desired frequency. This is from Tennyson’s poem Locksley Hall, which was written in 1835 and published in 1842: "For I dipt into the future, far as human eye could see, Saw the vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be; … Till the war-drum throbb’d no longer, and the battle flags were furled In the Parliament of man, the Federation of the world." In Tennyson's 1842 poem "Morte d'Arthur," the dying King Arthur says: "The old order changeth, yielding place to new” This is not proof that Tennyson was an early front for the New World Order, but he certainly moved in very interesting circles.
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Post by Lavendel on Jan 19, 2018 17:45:04 GMT
Alfred, Lord Tennyson: another Victorian of interest
Alfred Tennyson was one of the most popular and successful of the Victorian poets. I like some of his poetry very much. Researching some Victorians reminded me of him. A quick investigation has found some points of interest. Queen Victoria praised him highly and had a good relationship with him, although she was taken aback by his wild appearance when she first met him. When he died in 1892, 11,000 people applied for tickets to his funeral in Westminster Abbey. Tennyson’s father suffered frequent mental breakdowns that were exacerbated by alcoholism. This reminds me of what is said about Arthur Conan Doyle’s father. Tennyson studied at Trinity College, Cambridge. He later attended the house parties of Baron Lionel de Rothschild, a great friend of Benjamin Disraeli’s. From Lavendel a while back: “It's like in the classical music. Some of these people are hitting the tones at different wavelength. we are on lower vibration or tone. Talking about classical music I believe they communicate through this kind of music from the past, through colours of orange blue etc, through buildings s and emblems.“ Poetry is another medium that can be used to resonate people to the desired frequency. This is from Tennyson’s poem Locksley Hall, which was written in 1835 and published in 1842: "For I dipt into the future, far as human eye could see, Saw the vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be; … Till the war-drum throbb’d no longer, and the battle flags were furled In the Parliament of man, the Federation of the world." In Tennyson's 1842 poem "Morte d'Arthur," the dying King Arthur says: "The old order changeth, yielding place to new” This is not proof that Tennyson was an early front for the New World Order, but he certainly moved in very interesting circles. ____________________ Yesterday this is an Interesting find. I think too famours poets became so because they are documenting something or revealing or communicating with a later underground members. I have read that federation of nations is united nations. I have a feeling the zeit geist was to dream of an elected and functioning democracy. However this democracy is short liked. Many people are tired of the thinking and cheating and cheating goverments and many in euro with for a strong moral authority above the politicians and a representative of God. Many people are looking black to the kaiser days with nostalagia because he was an authority who representativd all the people and just own Partners or politicians party. Many her with for a strong kaiser who representativd the soul and spirit of the people during christimas, easter, or on cultural events were only a king or Prince or Queen can represent. |
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 27, 2018 13:49:56 GMT
The discovery and reinterment of the remains of Richard III
Richard, Duke of Gloucester was one of the most notorious members of the House of York. He became King Richard III – although not for long. He was the last York family member to become king: the Plantagenets were replaced by the Tudors. Richard III was killed at the Battle of Bosworth Field in 1485. William Shakespeare and Sir Laurence Olivier helped to keep his memory alive - and give him a possibly unjustified reputation as the murderer of the two Princes in the Tower - with the play Richard III and the film of the same name. I came across the fascinating topic of the discovery of his remains and the subsequent celebrations and ceremonies while looking for more information about Richard III and the House of York for various threads and themes in the old CC forum. Richard was the main person of interest at the time. My investigation generated a series of posts, many of which after some reorganisation of the content will go on this thread. We start with the discovery of the remains of Richard III beneath a Leicester car park in August 2012, 527 years after his death in the battle of Bosworth:   I don’t know how I could have missed this news and the subsequent developments at the time, all the more as I have always been interested in Richard III, but I did.
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 27, 2018 13:51:40 GMT
The discovery of Richard III’s remains started some wars
The discovery of the skeleton in the car park caused a sensation. It also generated some big wars! Richard III was the last English king to die in battle. He is now resting in peace, but only after some more fighting over him. In summary: Different cities claimed Richard III as their own and fought over the right to hold the official ceremonies. I wonder whether this was entirely a matter of money, publicity and tourism or whether there was something symbolic in it. The city of Leicester won that one and the White Rose of York lost. The second war was between the people who wanted a small, quiet, tasteful, dignified, respectful reinterment for Richard III, and the people who wanted a show-biz extravaganza. The people who wanted a huge festival of events won that one. No surprises there. Money was an important factor. The third war was over whether Richard III should have a Roman Catholic or an Anglican reburial service. The result was a compromise involving some religious diversity. Richard III was finally laid to rest in Leicester Cathedral in March 2015. It was like a huge state funeral. Some royals attended the service to mark the reinterment. The service was broadcast on a big screen to people outside the cathedral. People lined the streets; they cried; they queued to see the coffin; they dressed up in costumes of the time. 'Ricardians' came from all over the world to be part of the festivities. It all seems a bit over the top to me. It also seems strange that while Richard III got the full works centuries after his death, there was no memorial service in Princess Diana’s honour. They could have held one at Westminster cathedral on the 20th anniversary of her death for example. Here is one image from the funeral procession: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 27, 2018 13:53:23 GMT
Richard III and the first of three modern-day wars
The first big fight was over where Richard III's final resting place should be, with many people saying that he must be reburied in York, because 'that is what he would have wanted'. As we know, the city of Leicester won this war, despite a threatened legal challenge: “Leicester's petition to reinter the remains of Richard III in the city has beaten the total number of signatures gathered by rival campaigners in York. The York petition, which closed last week, ended with just over 31,300 names. However, with six days before it finishes, Leicester's online petition has cruised past its Yorkshire equivalent and continues to rise - gaining more than 1,500 names in the last 24 hours. Hinckley man Roy Shakespeare, who set up the e-petition was delighted with the figures... An exhumation licence granted by the Ministry of Justice to the University of Leicester gave the university the decision over where he should be reburied and it decided on Leicester Cathedral. However, a group called the Plantagenet Alliance is challenging the licence on the grounds that it believes there should have been public consultation. If the High Court decided the licence was invalid the matter of Richard's reburial could be decided by an independent panel of experts - although that is only one option. Meanwhile, a £1 million project to hold a grand reinterment ceremony for Richard III's remains at Leicester Cathedral is pressing ahead despite the judicial review.” Read more at www.leicestermercury.co.uk/richard-iii-leicester-s-petition-beats-york-s/story-19883661-detail/story.html#PTXhjY09esx0bXjr.99
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 27, 2018 13:55:38 GMT
More about the war over Richard III's remains
The Yorkists didn't give up easily: “The remains are due to be reinterred at Leicester Cathedral next year despite campaigns to bring them to York. On Monday, nine of Richard III's descendants said they believed the king, the last monarch from the House of York, would have wanted to be buried in the northern city...Known as Richard of York before his coronation, he funded part of the city's medieval gated walls... ...A petition calling for Richard to be reinterred at York has been signed by more than 23,000 people. The statement from the descendants was signed by Charles Brunner, Jacob Tyler and Eleanor and Charlotte Lupton, Richard's 17th great-nephews and nieces; Stephen Nicolay, Paul Tyler and Vanessa and Linda Roe, the monarch's 16th great-nephews and nieces; and Raymond Roe, the 15th great-nephew of the king.” www.smh.com.au/world/york-burial-for-richard-iii-its-what-he-would-have-wanted-20130225-2f1ra.htmlLupton? That name appears in the Middleton family tree and has been mentioned in a few other connections. Unfortunately, even the descendants of Richard III could not get his remains moved to the city of York.
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 27, 2018 17:45:23 GMT
Richard III and the second war
The city of Leicester played the 'finders keepers' game and won the first war, which was really about tourist income. The city has greatly benefitted financially from the discovery and subsequent exploitation. As mentioned above, the second war was between the people who wanted a small, quiet, tasteful, dignified, respectful reinterment for Richard III, and the people who wanted a show-biz extravaganza. The ceremonies were all very colourful and very moving. Some campaigners, often Yorkist, thought however that the proceedings were disrespectful and inappropriate, as in this article: “The more I see of the undignified, money-grabbing pantomime surrounding King Richard III in Leicester this weekend, the more incensed I become. The last Plantagenet king of England being treated as you would a sporting trophy, paraded through the streets, and, even worse, mirroring his last terrible journey after he was murdered at the Battle of Bosworth. I had thought I was past being shocked by anything Leicester did with regards Richard III but this travesty takes the biscuit" "So, after all these centuries, King Richard must still endure injustice by being reburied in the wrong cathedral, something that looks like descending into a cheap jamboree ... instead of the full state funeral befitting a great man and king. In his lifetime he suffered the treachery of lesser mortals. He suffered the same treachery on the day of the Battle of Bosworth and has had to suffer the false accusation of murder for all this time. Now, sadly, the powers-that-be still cannot give him a modicum of justice by returning him to his rightful cathedral of York with the full pomp of state.” These were from petitioners who wanted Richard’s remains to be brought to York, so maybe there is a sour grapes element to their criticisms. By coincidence, in his film Richard III Laurence Olivier plays Richard as a wicked uncle in a pantomime: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 27, 2018 17:49:06 GMT
Richard III and the third war
The third war was over whether Richard III should have a Roman Catholic or an Anglican reburial. I find it very amusing that the people who tried to appropriate his body and the ceremonies did it in his name: 'that is what he would have wanted'. This is not just about the burial place: Catholics said that Richard III would have wanted a Catholic burial ceremony and to be interred in a Catholic cathedral. “Cardinal Vincent Nichols has said that offering a Requiem Mass for the repose of the soul of Richard III was “a profound and essential Christian duty” and that it is what the former king of England would have wanted.“ catholicherald.co.uk/news/2015/03/23/requiem-mass-is-what-richard-iii-would-have-wanted-says-cardinal-nichols/Maybe Richard would have wanted everything to be 100% Catholic, but the Catholic bishops did not fight hard enough so although there was a Catholic ceremony the main service was conducted by the CofE in a Protestant cathedral. Some cynics said that tourism was the main religion in the case. Diversity was involved too: “Thursday, 26 March 2015 Leicester Cathedral The mortal remains of Richard III will be reinterred in Leicester Cathedral, with an invited congregation and in the presence of the Most Revd Justin Welby, Archbishop of Canterbury and senior clergy from both dioceses, and other Christian denominations alongside representatives of the World Faiths.” World faiths? One critic said that the main ceremony was “an interfaith super-ecumenical farrago.” I am sure that Richard would not have wanted this sort of ceremony; I think that he would have wanted a Catholic reinterment ceremony in York.
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 27, 2018 17:51:13 GMT
More about Richard III's reinterment celebrations in Leicester
There were five days of events, much to the disgust of the people who wanted a small, quiet, dignified ceremony. The coffin was taken to many places; as the critic above bitterly said, “The last Plantagenet king of England being treated as you would a sporting trophy, paraded through the streets.” The Royal Lancers with the coffin at Bosworth Field, where Richard was killed:  The Cross of St. George leads one of the processions:  Armoured knights accompanied the cortege:  The week ended with 8,000 candles lit as a commemoration of Richard III: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 27, 2018 17:54:38 GMT
Youtube recordings
I still can't understand how I could have missed everything, but there are extracts of varying lengths from several sources on YouTube.
Here are two examples:
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 28, 2018 7:05:14 GMT
Richard III's crown, statue and memorial
His crown was found under a thorn bush after the battle was lost, and placed on the head of Henry Tudor. This crown was laid to rest beside Richard:  His statue, which was heaped with white roses for the reburial, was re-sited to stand halfway between his new grave and the hole in the car park where he was found. There is a black sun element:   His sundial memorial at Bosworth Field: 
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 28, 2018 7:08:42 GMT
How Leicester cashed in with a new Richard III attraction
The discovery of the remains of Richard III has been god’s gift to the city of Leicester. A new attraction there is showing a replica of Richard III's skeleton:   “A replica of the skeleton of King Richard III (shown), created using 3D printing, has gone on display in a new visitor's centre on the site where his remains were discovered in Leicester. The centre, opening on 26 July, tells the story of his rise to power, his death in battle and the discovery of his bones Such is the detail of the replica that it clearly shows his curved spine, as well as his battle injuries, including the fatal blow that felled him. The centre entitled ‘King Richard III: Dynasty, Death and Discovery’ will also raise questions about how his disability should be portrayed in theatre and film.“ Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2705502/King-Richard-III-3D-PRINTED-Computer-generated-plastic-replica-monarchs-skeleton-goes-display.html#ixzz4hKj11YIoI can see why some people call exhibits such as this tacky and a tasteless exhibition of greed. They hate the Disneyworld style presentation. Maybe the Yorkists could print off a copy of the skeleton for themselves. It is what Richard III would have wanted.
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 28, 2018 20:49:41 GMT
A very negative view of Richard III’s reinterment
From an article in the Daily Mail: “Surely I can't have been the only person to think the world had gone stark staring bonkers as I viewed, with mounting stupefaction, the grotesque televised travesty in Leicester on Sunday involving the remains of the usurper-king, Richard III — without question one of the most evil, detestable tyrants ever to walk this earth… His coffin was accorded a 21-gun salute, a posse of 'medieval re-enactors' pranced about in shiny armour and plumed helmets, children wearing paper crowns waved and onlookers hurled white Yorkist roses at the wooden coffin. It was all a disturbing echo of the mass hysteria that briefly gripped the populace at the funeral of Princess Diana, someone infinitely more worthy of public grief than this murderous robber of a throne.”  Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3008671/Richard-III-one-evil-detestable-tyrants-walk-earth.html#ixzz4lvgjlXxv Richard III may have murdered a few people, but he was not one of the worst tyrants ever! As one commenter rightly says, “if you think Richard III was ‘without question one of the most evil, detestable tyrants ever to walk this earth’, then you need to get out more, mate.”
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 29, 2018 20:15:12 GMT
Royal involvement in the reinterment ceremonies
Three members of the royal family were directly involved in the Richard III reburial affair: the Queen, Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester and Sophie Countess of Wessex. The Queen is said to have at first distanced herself from the celebrations, appointing Sophie of Wessex to be her official representative. She is also said to have had a change of heart; she wrote a tribute for the Order of Service which acknowledged Richard’s importance to British history. Her ‘heartfelt eulogy’ was the centrepiece of the reinterment ceremony at Leicester Cathedral. It included the words ‘The discovery of his remains in Leicester has been described as one of the most significant archaeological finds in this country's history'’” Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester, was the most senior royal present at the reburial of his namesake Richard III, also Duke of Gloucester. He gave a reading from the Book of Exodus. The Duke, who is chairman of the Richard III society also lit a beacon during a special service at the sundial memorial The Duke of Gloucester and the Countess of Wessex in Leicester Cathedral, dressed as for a funeral: 
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 29, 2018 20:26:38 GMT
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on Jan 30, 2018 19:36:08 GMT
The involvement of Benedict Cumberbatch
Actor Benedict Cumberbatch has several connections with Richard III. He has played Richard in the Hollow Crown TV series. He read a poem at the ceremony in Leicester Cathedral. He is also very distantly related to Richard III: “Benedict Cumberbatch will pay tribute to his late second cousin 16 times removed when he reads a poem at the reburial of Richard III in Leicester Cathedral. It is estimated that between one and 17 million people in the UK alone are related in some way to the Plantagenet king, but Cumberbatch’s kinship is much closer than most. Kevin Schurer, a genealogist at the University of Leicester, has established that in the tangle of interrelated bloodlines of the Yorkists, Lancastrians and Tudors, Cumberbatch is linked to Richard several times, most directly through Richard’s mother, Cecily Neville, a daughter of one of the richest and most powerful families of the medieval kingdom.” www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/25/benedict-cumberbatch-is-related-to-richard-iii-scientists-sayBenedict Cumberbatch as Richard III and reading the poem in Leicester Cathedral:  
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