UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 14, 2017 8:57:06 GMT
The UK republican movement wants a referendum
There may be no need to do much active campaigning to bring an end to the monarchy. Why make a big effort to get rid of the royals when they will do the job for us! They are their own worst enemies. None of the royal candidates wants the job, and in any case many of them, and the people and families brought in by unwise marriages, don’t bear close inspection. Public opinion has been changing all by itself over the years. Why not just sit back and watch the show as they all self-destruct and by degrees become unwanted and irrelevant. After all, the Queen Mother was in her 102nd year when she died, so the Queen could be around for a while yet. During that time more and more damning information could come out, and Princes Charles and William’s deficiencies may become more obvious as they take on more public duties. Not everyone is taking a completely passive approach however. Committed, active republicans are waiting for the death of the Queen to launch a major operation: “Britain’s republican movement has revealed it plans to mount a campaign for a referendum on the future of the monarchy when the Queen dies. Republic has been nervous of appearing callous over the Queen’s mortality, because it sees the popularity of the Queen as crucial to public support for the institution… Republic’s chief executive, Graham Smith, suggested that, when it happens, the Queen’s death will mark a turning point in public attitudes. 'The Queen’s birthday reminds us that support for the monarchy is bound up with support for the Queen' he said.” www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/20/republicans-to-call-for-monarchy-referendum-when-queen-diesIt may indeed seem callous to talk about the Queen’s impending death, but the royals themselves discuss it and the proceedings all planned. Operation London Bridge is ready to go, and according to WiKi, has been ever since the 1960s. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_London_BridgeThe Queen’s death will be Republic’s big chance. I wonder whether they too have a name for their operation.
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UnseenI
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 14, 2017 8:58:21 GMT
More about campaign group Republic Republic is a membership-based pressure group. This is their mission statement: “The monarchy isn’t fit for purpose We want to see the monarchy abolished and the Queen replaced with an elected, democratic head of state.” More about their case for support: “Campaign group Republic has today claimed that the monarchy will face a significant threat to its future on the succession of King Charles. The comments come after a poll in the Sun newspaper which showed just 22% of the public support him succeeding the Queen. Graham Smith, speaking for Republic today, said: ‘The monarchy doesn't respect the wishes of the people, that's not how it works. A hundred polls could come out with the same result and still Charles will be King. When the time comes the new monarch will face a huge crisis of legitimacy, if polls continue to show significant opposition to his position.’" www.republic.org.uk/what-we-do/news-and-updates/monarchy-cant-survive-king-charles-say-republicansThe main problem here is finding someone suitable to be a head of state.
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Post by Avacyn on Oct 14, 2017 19:09:54 GMT
The main problem here is finding someone suitable to be a head of state. Your quote reminds me of this little clip. It's one minute twenty four seconds, and whilst set in fiction, Ezri is utterly correct. What she says sums up Western Civilisation in general. There will come a time when the people will have to take definitive action, one way or another. The system as it stands cannot last much longer.
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 15, 2017 5:36:49 GMT
That is spot on. The monarchy is dying and it deserves to die. There is corruption at the highest levels.
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 15, 2017 5:44:45 GMT
Republic is part of an association of similar organisations in various European countries that are working to end their own monarchies.
They are likely to be sincere and genuinely believe that an elected head of state is the best option. What I have been wondering is, who else is involved - behind the scenes. If 'they' have decided that it is time to end the monarchy, how would they benefit?
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Post by Avacyn on Oct 15, 2017 20:59:23 GMT
That is spot on. The monarchy is dying and it deserves to die. There is corruption at the highest levels. It's more than that, though. The whole system needs to be reformed. It has to change, from the top down. Preferably before everything collapses. This is the whole thing. We have everything supporting corruption. We have been supporting corruption. We need to stop that, but I don't know how... Not yet, any way.
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Post by Avacyn on Oct 15, 2017 21:02:25 GMT
Republic is part of an association of similar organisations in various European countries that are working to end their own monarchies. They are likely to be sincere and genuinely believe that an elected head of state is the best option. What I have been wondering is, who else is involved - behind the scenes. If 'they' have decided that it is time to end the monarchy, how would they benefit? This is the thing... will it produce positive change, however? I'm not convinced of that, and want to see more, before I can see it as something to get behind. They are now thinning the crowd, eliminating competition. It seems like Royalty is easy to target, and thus is likely to be early casualties of the infighting.
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 16, 2017 5:38:34 GMT
It could be something to do with the Age of Aquarius: revolution against the monarchy is very Aquarian.
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Post by Avacyn on Oct 17, 2017 23:14:10 GMT
An interesting concept... but I have to now ponder whether They are using an astrological/constellation system far older than the ones we are familiar with... constellations have been in use for at least 10,000 years. However, things have shifted about since those times. Maybe this is why we cannot fully understand this? Our contexts for understanding are too recent.
Another question: where does the concept of monarchy come from in the first place? And why did it emerge?
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 19, 2017 5:57:25 GMT
Earl Spencer, Princess Diana's brother, is anti monarchs called Charles
Princess Diana’s brother Earl Spencer is a keen historian; he has written four books, including this one: “ Killers of the King: The Men Who Dared to Execute Charles I, is a dark tale of the consequences faced by the 59 men who brought about the death of Charles I, in 1649, by signing his death warrant. When Charles II, Charles I’s son, took the reins in 1660, he sought vengeance against the 80 “killers” (including prosecutors and officers), a quest which comprises the meat of Spencer’s book.” This book is a best-seller. This shows how much interest there still is in the Civil War era and the monarchs of the time. Earl Spencer would like to see his book made into a film: “I’ve been sent by my agent to speak to some of the bigger Hollywood producers. I see the characters in my book quite clearly—there is a Colin Firth figure, intelligent and observant, who records all the goings on at this time, and who is a much sought after fugitive; there is a Benedict Cumberbatch figure, who is the key pursuer of the killers…” www.vanityfair.com/style/2015/01/lord-charles-spencer-killers-of-the-kingThe reviews on Amazon are mostly very good. One of them is relevant: “If ever we restore the English Republic, Citizen Spencer will be waving a flag I am delighted by Earl Spencer's deep-rooted dislike of kings called Charles. If Charles III ever faces a republican revolt, the Earl will be its Fairfax, at the head of the aristocratic opposition.”
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Post by Avacyn on Oct 19, 2017 22:36:46 GMT
You know, you've just reminded me that there was a film out earlier this year, called Charles III. The actor who played Charles died on 7th April, 2017, (7+4+2+0+1+7=21, or 3X7= 777,) and the music was done by Joclyn Pook, whose music helkped to form the soundtrack to the film Eyes Wide Shut.
Could this be something more significant than firth thought?
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 20, 2017 18:25:35 GMT
Is Prince Andrew, Duke of York in with a chance?
Let’s hope not! 'Duke of York' is the title given to the second son of the monarch. In the past, six Dukes of York have become king; two of them were from the House of Windsor: George V inherited the throne when his elder brother died and George VI when his elder brother abdicated. So George VI was the second son of a second son. The brothers died without issue; there would have to be a major disaster or scandal before the present Duke of York became king. Princes Charles, William, Harry and George and Princess Charlotte would all have to be removed from the line of succession, willingly or otherwise. Stranger things have happened. Prince Andrew, reported to be the Queen’s favourite child, is 57 years old; he has not aged well. There are allegations about his parentage. He has been involved in several scandals and controversies and, like Prince Charles, enjoys the company of some shady plutocrats. His time and influence are for sale. In response to a gossip story about his daughters’ futures, he published an angry personal statement on Twitter that not only contained grammatical errors and misused capital letters but also made the situation worse by giving much publicity to the story. He does not seem like a very good candidate, but then who does? With Sarah Ferguson, his ex-wife, who was filmed offering access to Prince Andrew in return for £500,000:
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 20, 2017 18:29:13 GMT
You could be right. I haven't seen any of these TV programmes that dramatise the lives of the royal family. Maybe I should give them a go to see whether there are any messages, clues or symbols.
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Post by Avacyn on Oct 21, 2017 23:42:55 GMT
You could be right. I haven't seen any of these TV programmes that dramatise the lives of the royal family. Maybe I should give them a go to see whether there are any messages, clues or symbols. Good point - it's out now on DVD, so might see if I can pick it up, and give it a viewing. Who knows - it might be predictive programming?
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 22, 2017 7:02:42 GMT
I don't like the sound of them, and wouldn't want to watch them just for entertainment. They are reported as being historically inaccurate, pure speculation in some cases, and pushing the boundaries just to get viewers. They turn the royals into players in a reality TV show, puppets who act out the writers' fantasies.
I am not much good at picking things up from films, but you might see something of interest.
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Post by Avacyn on Oct 22, 2017 10:26:00 GMT
I'll see what I can do. It might be a little while, I've a load of stuff to watch first!
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 23, 2017 17:13:28 GMT
The monarchy was abolished in 1649
There is a precedent for abolishing the monarchy – and the House of Lords. It happened after the end of the Civil War and the trial and execution of King Charles I. Votes were taken and resolutions made in the House of Commons in February 1649 to abolish both the monarchy and the House of Lords, and the corresponding Acts were passed in March. As they said at the time: “The Commons of England assembled in Parliament, finding by too long experience, that the House of Lords is useless and dangerous to the People of England to be continued ...” “And in the whole Line of them, how far hath the late King exceeded all his Predecessors, in the destruction of those whom they were bound to preserve; and instead of spreading his Protection to all, scarce permitting any to escape the violence of his fury. “ oll.libertyfund.org/pages/1649-a-declaration-of-parliamentIt really could be the beginning of the end of the monarchy when the Queen goes. Prince Charles is no Charles II, and as for William and Kate and those dreadful jeggings... Prince Harry seems to be deteriorating and is no longer as popular as he once was. They are all destroying that which the monarchy is bound to preserve. Give the younger members enough rope and they will hang themselves. What's left of them will surely become private citizens or merged with other celebrities. Watching the decline and fall of the monarchy is a good spectator sport for us. Let's enjoy the show and eat our popcorn.
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Post by Avacyn on Oct 24, 2017 22:50:24 GMT
You almost sound like you're a republican! Some very good points, but I'll counter with this: We could establish a new monarchy, using members of the extant Plantagenet lineage. And it might be supported as well, as they would be seen as "fresh blood," and untainted by corruption or decay. Just a passing thought, and one I must devote more consideration to. It might be another possibility, and maybe even a decent one?
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 25, 2017 5:56:52 GMT
You almost sound like you're a republican! Some very good points, but I'll counter with this: We could establish a new monarchy, using members of the extant Plantagenet lineage. And it might be supported as well, as they would be seen as "fresh blood," and untainted by corruption or decay. Just a passing thought, and one I must devote more consideration to. It might be another possibility, and maybe even a decent one? So who is there who is not corrupted then? I like the idea of the monarchy in theory. It could be something archetypal. Most of them don't bear close inspection though, and they live behind a façade.
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Post by Avacyn on Oct 25, 2017 6:07:36 GMT
That is a good question.I would have to look into it more in-depth to answer your question.
We need to have a Head of State that is an active part of the political system, that really does more than just wave at people. Someone who sees it as a public service, a duty gifted by the people to you. As the Grail keeps asking: whom do you serve?
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 26, 2017 5:27:22 GMT
Special arrangements in the making behind the scenes?
There are many examples of people openly fighting for the crown and disposing of rival claimants. Were special arrangements being made behind the scenes too? Could something ruthless have been playing chess with candidates for the throne – and still be doing it?
I wonder... the official lines of succession are one thing, and what we might call special arrangements are something else. King George V was one of the Dukes of York who only became king because his elder brother had died. The death was officially caused by an influenza epidemic. It was very convenient for everyone, as Prince Albert Victor, or Eddie, had 'learning difficulties' and alleged health problems and was not at all suitable for the throne. George V, a sober and reliable man, was a much better candidate. It does seem possible that something was 'arranged'.
And if this has happened in the past, could it be happening now? Could Prince Charles and his descendants have been weighed and found wanting? Maybe the unsuitability of Kate and Meghan is deliberate, permitted in order to discredit William and Harry.
Princess Anne does look like a good candidate now. However, she is way down the line of succession as her younger brothers and their families are ahead of her. Maybe the rules will be changed again...
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 30, 2017 17:36:53 GMT
How much longer before Operation London Bridge?
“At her age, her dying has to be sooner, rather than later. But is she secretly ill, and this is preparing us for something about to come? Just speculation on my part.” And, “I noticed that being said. I wonder if she has hidden problems?” All things are possible Avacyn . However, I think that she must be much stronger and healthier than average to have lasted so long and carried out so many duties. Maybe there is nothing wrong apart from the natural ageing process. Winding down is to be expected. The replacement has to be trained after all, which is best done as part of a gradual takeover. We could well see her making public appearances for another 10 years! Let’s not forget that her mother lived to the age of 101. Even so, you have a habit of being right about these things. It could be that living with all the uncertainty about the future of the monarchy and the obvious unsuitability of some of the heirs is getting to her. Even the DM is printing very critical articles about the royal family. Sometimes dissolving smokescreens, looking behind the façade and shining light into dark corners has a bad effect on guilty parties. She could be feeling bad because she suspects that the game may be up.
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Post by Avacyn on Oct 30, 2017 22:57:32 GMT
Special arrangements in the making behind the scenes?
There are many examples of people openly fighting for the crown and disposing of rival claimants. Were special arrangements being made behind the scenes too? Could something ruthless have been playing chess with candidates for the throne – and still be doing it? I wonder... the official lines of succession are one thing, and what we might call special arrangements are something else. King George V was one of the Dukes of York who only became king because his elder brother had died. The death was officially caused by an influenza epidemic. It was very convenient for everyone, as Prince Albert Victor, or Eddie, had 'learning difficulties' and alleged health problems and was not at all suitable for the throne. George V, a sober and reliable man, was a much better candidate. It does seem possible that something was 'arranged'. And if this has happened in the past, could it be happening now? Could Prince Charles and his descendants have been weighed and found wanting? Maybe the unsuitability of Kate and Meghan is deliberate, permitted in order to discredit William and Harry. Princess Anne does look like a good candidate now. However, she is way down the line of succession as her younger brothers and their families are ahead of her. Maybe the rules will be changed again... This might be of use. I stumbled onto it, when trying to research the topic some more: If you wanted to be seen as clearing house, I think you would likely have to disallow the whole lineage comkng from Elizabeth II. Looking at the above succession, It could well be that you have David Armstrong-Jones, Viscount Linley as a likely candidate for the throne. As for Kate and Meghan, I think it stems from the fact there is no-one willing to go and be a member of the family. Remember, you had William split from her, and dated a number of women, then ended up back with Kate. In all likelihood, Meghan is the only one willing to go for Harry, probably not aware of what she is getting herself into. The noble houses all will know quite a bit of the Royals; who would get involved with them? Just my take on it all.
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Post by UnseenI on Oct 31, 2017 6:08:52 GMT
How did it come to this? Royal princes with no takers! Or at least none from the right families.
We did discuss Meghan a lot on CC; it seemed likely that she was just after publicity and there were many photo-shopped pictures, but now I am wondering whether he really is going to marry her.
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Post by UnseenI on Nov 4, 2017 7:35:55 GMT
Favouritism, letter burning and payback time
There are some posts in the Royal Façade thread about Queen Victoria and the Queen Mother and the favouritism they showed towards certain men. These royal ladies were only human; they relied very much on their attendants to provide them with service, companionship and emotional support. Many people who could do with some of that sort of attention and devotion for themselves would envy them. Many people would envy the male servants, the lucky devils who had all those houses, favours, honours and gifts lavished upon them – while their protectors were alive.
There are also accounts of letters being destroyed by members of the royal family, sometimes in revenge and sometimes to destroy what might be incriminating and embarrassing evidence of bad behaviour or expressions of views that would destroy someone’s carefully cultivated public image and discredit the royal family.
What the stories about favouritism, letter burning and payback time are leading up to is, who’s next? There may be people who are in the favour of the Queen and/or Prince Charles for now, but what will happen when their protectors die? How much burning of letters and evicting people from grace and favour homes will we be seeing?
Angela Kelly, the Queen’s dresser and clothes designer who is reported to have a uniquely close relationship with her, is a possible candidate for eviction.
Has Prince Charles endangered the monarchy by marrying Camilla? Would people turn on her if anything happened to him? Who is letting William and Kate get away with so much? What happens if this person dies?
Will staff move from one ‘safe house’ to another in the hope of being in the right place when the music stops?
Operation London Bridge, which was devised in the 1960s and is updated several times a year, has been rehearsed several times and is ready to be put in motion. It just covers the official protocol and procedures for dealing with the death of the monarch. I wonder whether Operations Letterburn and Payback Time are ready to go too. Who is waiting for the signal to go ahead?
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Post by UnseenI on Nov 6, 2017 17:08:14 GMT
“At her age, her dying has to be sooner, rather than later. But is she secretly ill, and this is preparing us for something about to come? Just speculation on my part.”
And, “I noticed that being said. I wonder if she has hidden problems?”
I look for obvious explanations before going deeper.
It is best to adjust slowly to a reduction in public engagements and an increase in free time. She would surely like to spend more time with Prince Philip, as who knows how much longer he will be around. He is 96 years old!
At a deeper level, maybe she is not feeling happy about the situation. Perhaps she is worrying about the future of the monarchy; she will not be leaving it in good hands. She must know that Prince Harry said that no one wants the job. Then there are the Cambridges. We had our doubts when it was announced that they would be taking on more duties, and look what they have done to get out of it! I see it as passive aggression on Kate’s part.
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Post by UnseenI on Nov 14, 2017 7:13:21 GMT
Defender of the Faith: a major requirement for the successor
You mentioned a clearing house Avacyn , which is amusing and maybe prophetic. I have been thinking in terms of a job title, job description, person specification, essential and desirable attributes and deal-breaking requirements. At present, the Queen is Supreme Governor the Church of England and Defender of the (Anglican) Faith. Perhaps these are now empty titles and not taken seriously by the holders; if so, perhaps we should think about ending the monarchy. Religion played a big part in determining who was chosen for the monarchy in the past. Elizabeth I defended the Protestant faith against the Catholics; now perhaps Elizabeth II should be thinking about defending Christianity against Islam, and so should her successor. Henry VIII was the first monarch to be styled Defender of the Faith. Who will be the last? Here he is in blue and orange: “Portrait Of Henry Viii Defender Of The Faith And His Court “
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Post by UnseenI on Nov 14, 2017 17:47:44 GMT
Prince Charles: Defender of the Faith or All Religions are One?
Which of the possible candidates for the monarchy takes the title of Defender of the (Anglican) Faith seriously? Not Prince Charles, apparently. From 2013: “From embracing Islam to attending Catholic masses and plans for a "multi-faith" coronation, Prince Charles's religious beliefs are wide-ranging… When he ascends the throne, the Prince of Wales insists he should be cast not as Defender of the Faith, the title held by each monarch since 1521, but as "Defender of Faith" The Prince has form in embracing Islam. For the last two decades, he has been patron of the Oxford Centre for Islamic Studies, where he gave a speech in 1993 on “Islam and the West” that was reprinted enthusiastically in newspapers across the Middle East… The future surely lies in rediscovering t he universal truths that dwell at the heart of these religions,” he has said. “ All I have ever wanted to do is build bridges that span these chasms.” www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-charles/10434069/Prince-Charles-and-religion-a-very-special-faith.htmlwww.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/3454271/Prince-Charles-to-be-known-as-Defender-of-Faith.htmlSome people are going to see Prince Charles as a traitor. By trying to defend all faiths simultaneously, he may not only be endangering the position of the Church of England but also giving the message that they are all much the same. In reality, some of them are threats to some of the others. He may be feeling the influence of the spirit of the age and picking up the Aquarian All is One message, which is featured in the Sol Invictus thread.
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Post by UnseenI on Nov 16, 2017 7:07:56 GMT
Boris Johnson for the next monarch?
This would be scraping the bottom of the barrel, but he does have a remote claim to the throne: “London Mayor Boris Johnson is distantly related to the British Royal Family, it is revealed in the new series of BBC One's Who Do You Think You Are? The programme finds that Boris's paternal grandmother, Yvonne Eileen Williams, who was affectionally known in the family as "Granny Butter" and whose family name was de Pfeffel, was a descendant of Prince Paul Von Wurttemberg. The German prince was, in turn, a direct descendant of George II. This discovery means that Boris Johnson is not only distantly related, albeit very far removed, to the present Royal Family but also to all the royal houses of Europe, including the Swedish and Dutch royal families, as well as the Romanoffs. Speaking in the programme about his newly found lineage, Boris Johnson says: ‘I would have been terribly proud just to have been related to the German king, but I can't hide it from you that, even in our common European home, I am particularly thrilled to have some British royal ancestry as well.’” www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/08_august/04/think.shtmlI don’t think that he would be a good Defender of the Faith though:
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Post by UnseenI on Nov 16, 2017 7:14:21 GMT
BoJo wants to be king – of the world!
“While the 48-year-old believes that being Prime Minister would be “very tough”, he said in this week’s Radio Times that he’d happily “have a crack” at the country’s top job if the opportunity arose… Johnson’s sister Rachel told RT that Boris has never been short of ambition. ‘As Boris was growing up,’ she said, ‘whenever anyone asked him what he wanted to be, he would answer: ‘World King’.” www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-03-19/boris-johnson-id-love-to-have-a-crack-at-being-prime-minister/
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